What does it take to qualify as a marksman in the military ?

M

MTAA

Moderator
Former and current military people, just what does one have to complete in order to qualify as an "expert" or "marksman" with a rifle or a pistol ? Was this difficult ?
 
I don't remember what marksmen was. I do remember you needed atleast 23 to qualify.

I went (and qualified) after 38-40 which is expert. 40 is considered Hawkeye.
 
Not much. It was the lowest category. I don't remember the specifices, since it has been 29 years.

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"Unless the Lord builds the house, they labour in vain that build it:
except the Lord guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." (Psalm 127:1)

The Second Amendment rights have not kept pace with the First.

"Freedom is given to the human conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility."
(Alexander Solzhenitzyn)
 
Depends upon the branch. In the Air Force, I qualified as "Expert" with the M-16 because I kept something like 80 out of 100 shots in the body of a man-sized target on a thousand-inch range - a little less than 28 yards. In the Marines, that probably would be a pistol range!

As a matter of fact, I believe I *could* do that now with a handgun! Lt. Dan Walker, a DPS Lt. in Austin, TX, probably could hit 100/100 head shots (off-hand) at that distance.

Let's hear from the Marines and snipers!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited November 10, 2000).]
 
In the Marine Corps, you shoot an M-16 at 200, 300, and 500 yards. Different targets, but basicly man sized. At 500 yards the front sight post is wider than the target. 225-250 makes you an expert. I forget the scores for the lesser ranks. This is a farther distance with iron sights than most snipers shoot with scopes. The Marines take their rifle training seriously.

Rob
 
Thanks, Houndawg! "The Marines take their rifle training seriously."

From what I've seen, the Marines take *ALL* their training seriously. Their honor, valor, integrity and expertise is why I thank every Marine I see - just for being a Marine. Were they anything lesser than what they are, I wouldn't be here. It remains my unpayable debt to the few, the proud, the Marines.
 
As HoundDawg mentioned, Marines must qualify at several different distances. It should also be pointed out that they must fire off-hand, kneeling, sitting, and prone, in both slow and rapid fire. In boot camp, an entire week is devoted to stretching ones body into the most stable firing platform it can be, and dry firing at simulated targets.

On this of all days, it is important to remember that it is not only "uncommon valor" that has earned the Corps its reputation as the world's finest fighting force, but also the fact that Marine riflemen (and evey Marine is a rifleman first and foremost) are the best shots out there.

BTW, the final stage of the USMC rifle qualification is the 500 yard prone position, firing at a slightly larger than man-sized target. Many Marines consider these gimmes.
 
I shot expert 3 out of the 4 years I was in the Corps (shot in a torential downpour in boot camp), my highest score was 237/250. I'm doing a few years in the PA Nat'l Guard and talk always drifts over to life in the Corps. They just stare in amazement when I tell them about our qualifying, I think the army only shoots out to 300 yds. When I was first in the Corps we shot for 5 days, the first was called triangularization (sp) fire, basically making sure you can hit the target. Tue, Wed and Thur we shot the qualification course I believe. On Thurs you also made sure you shot your best in case we couldn't shoot on Fri...weather, injury, etc. Friday was qual day.
 
My son shot expert the day before quals. Then blew up on the 500m during quals.
He was not a happy boot.
 
In the army, there are a maximum of 40 points, and you are given 40 rounds. You shoot at pop-up targets (if you have acess to them) at ranges of 25, 50, 100, 150, 200, 250, and 300 meters. You need a 23 to qualify. 23 to 27, I believe, is marksman, 28 to 36 is sharpshooter, and 37-40 is expert, if memory serves me correctly.
 
In the army;

on a pop up target range:

below 23 is unqualified
23-30 is Marksman
31-35 is Sharpshooter
36-40 is Expert

The targets pop-up at ranges of 50 (25 meters is only for the NBC fire), 100, 150, 200,250, and 300.

On a paper from 25 meters to different size silouets:

25-32 Marksman
33-37 Sharpshooter
38-40 Expert

Regardless of which table you fire, you fire 20 rounds from the foxhole supported firing position and 2 rounds from the prone unsupported position.

All the World's Finest
www.Lightfighter.com
 
This is a sore subject with me, even nearly 30 years after the fact.

Qualifying Day, Basic Training, Fort Ord, CA, 1972:

I'm belly down in a 4 inch deep puddle of water created by melting snow from a freak storm. My well-worn firing position is facing a pop-up target out at 25 meters.

I can shoot. I know I can shoot. So, why doesn't the target fall?

I squeeze of a shot to COM on any of the targets under 100 meters and they do not fall. My frustratiion is mounting as I move to the next series of targets. I shoot. The targets at longer ranges go down. The near targets don't. AUGHHH! What is happening?

After the company has finished shooting I find the source of my frustration:

My last name begins with the letter "W." I shot near the end of my company and afer other companies in the battalion.

One of the joys of being a "W" is you also get to police-up after the rest of the troops have moved on.

While policing the range, with a Drill Sergeant surpervising, I approach the 25 meter camoflaged pop-up target and find the center completely shot out. The targets are man-size silhouettes made of plastic. The reason the targets don't fall, when I shot COM, is that the bullets are passing through empty space and failed to trip the sensor that drops the target. The targets out past 100 meters are relativly intact. They fell when I shot.

I only shot "Sharpshooter." I was pi...., er, uh, I mean... well... I was "disappointed."

I know I should not whine, get over it, move on, "...that was thirty years ago," etc., but this still burns me everytime I think about it. I know I "hit" the near targets.

I WAS ROBBED! I could have been a contender! Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! Remember the Alamo!

Uh, er, mmm.......

Uh-oh. I hear my wife coming. I must have been banging the keyboard too hard again. I guess it's time to get the ol' medication adjusted again.

*sigh*

I hope she lets me take it orally, this time.

William
 
The Nav has "basic qual", "sharpshooter", and "expert" classifications. "Expert" gets you a medal, while the other two just get you a ribbon. Also, the "qual" ribbon is plain, while the "sharpshooter" gets a bronze "s" on the ribbon, and the "expert" gets a big silver "E" on the ribbon. The rifle ribbon is blue with 3 green stripes and is a greater ribbon than the pistol version that is the same, but with only 2 green stripes.

Both were comically easy to qualify as expert. We did the same 1,000 inch range with the rifle (the target is proportionately smaller). The pistol course started at near contact range (like 6 feet) and didn't get past 25 yards at max range.
 
I have no idea what they do now, but in 1967 at Lackland AFB, we spent one day in the classroom on the AR-15 and the next day at the range. Target was half man-sized at 100 yds., 60 rounds total, 20 at each of three positions. To qualify you had to get at least 20 rounds on paper and they made sure you had a sharp pencil with you when you retrieved your target. I don't remember what was needed to qualify as expert since My eyesight was a lot better then and I had no trouble putting a big hole center mass and a
few in the head just to show off. Three years later back at the VTANG it was time to requalify and the black rifles had been taken away and replaced with used-up M1 carbines. I went through three rifles before I could get 20 holes in the target. Thank God the range officer was a personal friend.
 
Mick,
Half-sized man target? I'll be darned! Yep, coulda been! All I remembered from Lackland (1959 was a looong time ago for *me*!) was the target was really easy to hit.

My bunk mate in basic was former National Guard or Reserves or some darned thing. He said to avoid other duties on Saturday we should blow the qualification shoot. So I listened to him and we both failed to qualify. Boy, did WE get chewed out! I was really mad at both of us!

Saturday, the rest of the barracks had some ugly, dirty detail across base. My buddy and I (and a few real losers) went shooting! :) We both qualified expert.

The E-5 (Omigod! An *E-5*!!) started to chew us out for not qualifying earlier. Then suddenly stopped in the middle of his tirade and squinted at us. The conversation went something like:

Sgt: Wait a minute. You airmen are here because you just wanted to shoot, aren't you!

Me: (terrified little E-1) Sir! Yes, Sir!

He started to laugh, shook his head and just walked away. (Phew!)
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As best I remember (through the CRS) we had 100 rounds and had to have 80 body shots.

My first shot was on the paper, just left of the tgt's navel. I aimed at the right side and put 80 in the body and 19 in the head. (Just showin' off!) THAT was how the Sgt got wise to us.

Musta been about July of '59. Jeez! A lifetime ago. :eek:

Thanks, Mick. :)
 
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