What do YOU think is the #1 requirement of a HD gun?
- Thread starter Hal
- Start date
Brett Bellmore
New member
Well, sure, reliability is important, but in some respects it's less important for a home defense gun than a gun for other uses; A gun that misfires once every ten thousand rounds is "unreliable", but what are the chances that it will misfire when you actually need it? (Murphy aside?) That's right, one in ten thousand! I'd say that any gun reliable enough that you wouldn't consider it junk would be reliable enough that other considerations would become more important.
Like stopping power. Mine's a .45 Colt revolver, loaded with Glaser safety slugs. LOTS of stopping power.
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Sic semper tyrannis!
Like stopping power. Mine's a .45 Colt revolver, loaded with Glaser safety slugs. LOTS of stopping power.
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Sic semper tyrannis!
David Scott
New member
IMHO reliability is always #1. Fortunately, most repuatable brands have got this down. So long as you don't buy pot-metal junk like Lorcins and Grendels you should be OK, but TEST it first and train with it. Too many people buy a home defense gun and just stuff it in a drawer.
Next up comes ease of use. If you need to use it you will be in a high stress situation and possibly just awakened from sleep. The simpler the better. DA revolvers, and DA or DAO automatics are basically point and squeeze shooters.
Stopping power WITHOUT overpenetration is next. House walls are not much of a barrier. You want your bullet to stay in the bad guy. The .357 Mag/.357 SIG with light HPs are great.
Next up comes ease of use. If you need to use it you will be in a high stress situation and possibly just awakened from sleep. The simpler the better. DA revolvers, and DA or DAO automatics are basically point and squeeze shooters.
Stopping power WITHOUT overpenetration is next. House walls are not much of a barrier. You want your bullet to stay in the bad guy. The .357 Mag/.357 SIG with light HPs are great.
Brett Bellmore
New member
David, M1911: I don't disagree about reliability, so much as I think it's pretty much a given unless you buy real junk.
Let me clairify my view: What is the gun supposed to reliably DO? Just shoot? No, you want a gun which will reliably drop the bad guy when you pull the trigger. And THAT sort of reliability is a product of both reliable firing, and the stopping power of the firearm/cartridge. (And marksmanship, of course!) Unless you get into some real junk, all you're looking at are the most marginal variations in reliable firing. But stopping power is going to vary dramatically from one gun to the next; Unless you're getting into something die cast from zinc, stopping power is going to be the main factor determining how reliably you drop the bad guy when you pull the trigger.
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Sic semper tyrannis!
Let me clairify my view: What is the gun supposed to reliably DO? Just shoot? No, you want a gun which will reliably drop the bad guy when you pull the trigger. And THAT sort of reliability is a product of both reliable firing, and the stopping power of the firearm/cartridge. (And marksmanship, of course!) Unless you get into some real junk, all you're looking at are the most marginal variations in reliable firing. But stopping power is going to vary dramatically from one gun to the next; Unless you're getting into something die cast from zinc, stopping power is going to be the main factor determining how reliably you drop the bad guy when you pull the trigger.
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Sic semper tyrannis!
Mike Irwin
Staff
I disagree with the comment that reliability is less important in a Home Defense gun.
If you have a family, and you're depending on that gun to be the barrier between them, the person or people who may want to hurt them, and harm, are you willing to say that absolute, 100% reliability is not as important as in a personal carry weapon?
On the contrary, in that situation I say that reliability is all the more important.
In ANY firearm used for personal protection, 100% absolute reliability is the single most important factor there is.
Everything is is secondary, such as:
Not as accurate as your other guns? Who cares? Unless it's shooting 4-FOOT groups at 10 feet, a few inches spread at 25 yards on a close-in defensive weapon is not a big deal.
Not quite as easy to use? That's what training, and LOTS of training, is for.
Kicks more than your other guns? Again, training, but with the plethora of ammo and grip options that are out there today, it's not going to be hard to get things under control.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
If you have a family, and you're depending on that gun to be the barrier between them, the person or people who may want to hurt them, and harm, are you willing to say that absolute, 100% reliability is not as important as in a personal carry weapon?
On the contrary, in that situation I say that reliability is all the more important.
In ANY firearm used for personal protection, 100% absolute reliability is the single most important factor there is.
Everything is is secondary, such as:
Not as accurate as your other guns? Who cares? Unless it's shooting 4-FOOT groups at 10 feet, a few inches spread at 25 yards on a close-in defensive weapon is not a big deal.
Not quite as easy to use? That's what training, and LOTS of training, is for.
Kicks more than your other guns? Again, training, but with the plethora of ammo and grip options that are out there today, it's not going to be hard to get things under control.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Brett,
Unfortunatly, cost is not always a factor of reliability.
Take AMT. Pricey guns, but their reliability is generally on the low end. I've used LOTS of AMT products, and only a 1 or 2 have been flawlessly reliable.
Also, some firearms, especially semi-autos, may have ammunition issues.
Some Colt-style 1911s still can be iffy feeding anything other than hardball until they have some barrel and ramp work.
Walther PPKs have also been known to bobble quite a bit with defensive ammo.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
Unfortunatly, cost is not always a factor of reliability.
Take AMT. Pricey guns, but their reliability is generally on the low end. I've used LOTS of AMT products, and only a 1 or 2 have been flawlessly reliable.
Also, some firearms, especially semi-autos, may have ammunition issues.
Some Colt-style 1911s still can be iffy feeding anything other than hardball until they have some barrel and ramp work.
Walther PPKs have also been known to bobble quite a bit with defensive ammo.
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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
#1 priority...in hand when needed. I don't have guns handy that aren't reliable.
Depending where I am and what I am doing at the time of the invasion, could be .38, .357, .22, .44, .308, slug, shot etc. Whatever it is, it will go bang when I pull the trigger.
Sam....impissable; hard to ire.
Depending where I am and what I am doing at the time of the invasion, could be .38, .357, .22, .44, .308, slug, shot etc. Whatever it is, it will go bang when I pull the trigger.
Sam....impissable; hard to ire.
Country Boy
New member
#1 The gun should be accessable.
#2 The gun should go BANG 99.999% of the time. (reliability of operation)
#3 You should easily be able to make the gun go BANG. (method of operation/training)
#4 When the gun goes BANG, the bad person should say OUCH. (reasonable accuracy)
#5 When the bad person says OUCH, he should say it loudly. (power of cartridge)
#6 When needed, the gun should be able to make the bad person say OUCH over and over. (magazine capacity)
#7 When the gun goes BANG, it shouldn't go through the wall and hit your priceless NASCAR collector plate. (not over powered)
Just my $0.02
#2 The gun should go BANG 99.999% of the time. (reliability of operation)
#3 You should easily be able to make the gun go BANG. (method of operation/training)
#4 When the gun goes BANG, the bad person should say OUCH. (reasonable accuracy)
#5 When the bad person says OUCH, he should say it loudly. (power of cartridge)
#6 When needed, the gun should be able to make the bad person say OUCH over and over. (magazine capacity)
#7 When the gun goes BANG, it shouldn't go through the wall and hit your priceless NASCAR collector plate. (not over powered)
Just my $0.02
Very interesting topic for me. I have been thinking about putting together a "dedicated" home defense pistol and been considering some requirements for such pistol. Currently I think home defense pistol should have following characteristics in order of importance:
1. Reliable - must be totally reliable with good HD ammo.
2. Ergonomics - size, weight, trigger action, etc. must be conductive to fast but safe shooting
3. Sights - must be able to mount a flashlight and prefer to have provision for night sights
4. Caliber - minimum 38+P or 9mm but without excessive penetration
5. Ammo capacity - more is better
I have narrowed my choice down to 2 pistols Sig220 or Beretta 92FS. Both pistols are reliable, ergonomically both offer safety of DA on first shot and I shoot well with both, I can mount Surefire flashlight and night sights on both pistols. However, Sig220 has larger bore while Beretta has higher ammo capacity.
I'm leaning towards the Beretta because of higher ammo capacity and my wife can shoot the Beretta better than the Sig.
Lets see, a Beretta 92FS with night sights and Surefire flashlight loaded with 15+1 rounds of Remington 115gr JHP +P+ ammo. Let me change the ammo to Corbon 115gr JHP since they have low muzzle flash.
1. Reliable - must be totally reliable with good HD ammo.
2. Ergonomics - size, weight, trigger action, etc. must be conductive to fast but safe shooting
3. Sights - must be able to mount a flashlight and prefer to have provision for night sights
4. Caliber - minimum 38+P or 9mm but without excessive penetration
5. Ammo capacity - more is better
I have narrowed my choice down to 2 pistols Sig220 or Beretta 92FS. Both pistols are reliable, ergonomically both offer safety of DA on first shot and I shoot well with both, I can mount Surefire flashlight and night sights on both pistols. However, Sig220 has larger bore while Beretta has higher ammo capacity.
I'm leaning towards the Beretta because of higher ammo capacity and my wife can shoot the Beretta better than the Sig.
Lets see, a Beretta 92FS with night sights and Surefire flashlight loaded with 15+1 rounds of Remington 115gr JHP +P+ ammo. Let me change the ammo to Corbon 115gr JHP since they have low muzzle flash.
Or maybe not a 12 gauge, depending on the experience level of the user. While I'd put reliability at the top, shootability would be a very close second, almost a tie.
My first gun was 12 gauge pump. I bought it on the recommendation of "the guy at the gun store", brought it home and stuck in the closet. Eventually I found a trap/skeet range to shoot at, but I'd hardly call that training. I was really unprepared for the recoil the first time out, and it was only after I moved to a property where I could do "defensive-type drills" that I realized how hard it was to shoot the damn thing, especially manipulating the action reliably (there's that word again). I did get proficient eventually, but as a first defensive gun it was a poor choice, simply because it lacked "shootability".
I imagine a lot of people buy their first gun for HD purposes. Practice is a big part of the shootability theme, and there just aren't that many shotgun ranges out there, as compared to handgun ranges.
Bottom Line: Get an AK-47.
My first gun was 12 gauge pump. I bought it on the recommendation of "the guy at the gun store", brought it home and stuck in the closet. Eventually I found a trap/skeet range to shoot at, but I'd hardly call that training. I was really unprepared for the recoil the first time out, and it was only after I moved to a property where I could do "defensive-type drills" that I realized how hard it was to shoot the damn thing, especially manipulating the action reliably (there's that word again). I did get proficient eventually, but as a first defensive gun it was a poor choice, simply because it lacked "shootability".
I imagine a lot of people buy their first gun for HD purposes. Practice is a big part of the shootability theme, and there just aren't that many shotgun ranges out there, as compared to handgun ranges.
Bottom Line: Get an AK-47.
Interesting replies, and since I asked what YOU think, all are correct I guess, at least from an individual perspective. I see the majority are leaning towards reliability. Not to discount the other answers though! Reading the names of the people that answered something other than reliable, I can pick out a couple that use what can be considered a reliable arm, and If I had to guess, I would say they take it on faith as well as experience that reliable is a given. Yeah, like a couple others, I'm trying to put together "the perfect HD gun" for myself.