What do you have to do to be a class III dealer (aka full auto owner)
- Thread starter Doug.38PR
- Start date
It would probably depend on your state concealed weapons laws
In my state, a concealed weapon is limited to less than 12", so, I'm thinking most fully auto guns would not qualify. There is no open carry of handguns and even though you can open carry a rifle around with you, I don't think carrying a fully auto AR-15, or what ever, from grocery store to wally world would make your day go better.
I kind of have to agree with some of the fully auto limitations. In most cases it's going to be a dangerous waste of ammo. I've shot fully auto weapons and they are a hoot and I can see the need for having them stored away in case. Since gun control is mostly about keeping guns out of poor peoples hands... the tax laws for fully auto work. Pretty much only the rich can have full auto weapons.
If nothing else, in this day and age if you needed to use one... you better have a lot of money to invest in a very, very good legal team.
In my state, a concealed weapon is limited to less than 12", so, I'm thinking most fully auto guns would not qualify. There is no open carry of handguns and even though you can open carry a rifle around with you, I don't think carrying a fully auto AR-15, or what ever, from grocery store to wally world would make your day go better.
I kind of have to agree with some of the fully auto limitations. In most cases it's going to be a dangerous waste of ammo. I've shot fully auto weapons and they are a hoot and I can see the need for having them stored away in case. Since gun control is mostly about keeping guns out of poor peoples hands... the tax laws for fully auto work. Pretty much only the rich can have full auto weapons.
If nothing else, in this day and age if you needed to use one... you better have a lot of money to invest in a very, very good legal team.
The tax is only $200 IIRC which is nothing to what the MG itself will cost.
I think it's the 1984 Ban that is what works in that it made the MG market a permanently limited market, as in "supply and demand" pricing.
If it weren't for the '84 Ban, you would probably be able to buy a brand new M-16 for $1200 instead of $15,000 (plus tax, title, and license, of course
).Carter
Carry of a full auto weapon is not dependent upon your SOT status. It is dependent upon your state's statute.
The "machine gun freeze" transpired in May of 1986. The "Hughes Amendment" (Rep. Hughes, D-NJ, was incarcerated thereafter) to the Firearms Owner Protection Act of 1986.
The "machine gun freeze" transpired in May of 1986. The "Hughes Amendment" (Rep. Hughes, D-NJ, was incarcerated thereafter) to the Firearms Owner Protection Act of 1986.
I think everyone missed the question.
I don't believe he was asking about 'carrying' as in for personal defense, but as in "If I'm a class III dealer, can I carry my wares to the range for my own personal enjoyment/practise."
I've kinda wondered this myself as well. Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to be a class III dealer and get dealer/law enforcement only weapons?
I don't believe he was asking about 'carrying' as in for personal defense, but as in "If I'm a class III dealer, can I carry my wares to the range for my own personal enjoyment/practise."
I've kinda wondered this myself as well. Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to be a class III dealer and get dealer/law enforcement only weapons?
No. To get either a dealers license & SOT or manufacturers license & SOT you need to be actively in business and making sales/transfers. If you don't engge in business requires the license BATFE can rescind your license, and depending upon what types of weapons you acquired in the meantime, possibly charge you with tax evasion. IOW, its not a license to enhance your own collection, and if you get a manufacturing license and never sell anything you manufacture you will lose the license. Additionally, proper zoning requirements are more stringently examined for SOTs, especially manufacturers. As for acquiring cheap post-samples, even a dealer needs to get a bonafide request for a demonstration of that particular model by a LE agency on LE letterhead, and absent some very compelling reason, BATFE will not approve more than one of a particular type of weapon to a dealer.
The cost of just the SOT (not including the underlying manufacturer or dealer's license) is $500/year. Add to that all the required state and local business licenses, fees, etc. and you're looking at between $1000/year to $2400+/year. Considering that posties never appreciate in value and must either be destroyed, turned in to BATFE or sold to another dealer (with a demo letter) or LE agency, one should only consider posties as "rentals" - you only rent them until you lose the license. Transferables, OTOH, continually appreciate in value and can be kept until death of the owner.
In short, only consider the manufacturers or dealers license if you are genuinely dedicated to going into business.
all the above is kind of useless to me. the cheapest full auto I have seen lately was in the $15,000 range. even if it's 9mm, 600 rounds a minute would bust me in one outing. I guess you have to be named Dillon, and make chain guns for the military, and own your own reloading company to play that game.
That man must have some kind of clout to be able to fly around the desert & destroy junker cars! Man, what a life..............
That man must have some kind of clout to be able to fly around the desert & destroy junker cars! Man, what a life..............
Factory G18's? No. However, there may be one or two registered conversions of G17's. Assuming so, the price would be astronomical for one - probably at least $40,000, and more likely well over $100k. FWIW, there was a registered Beretta 93R built on a titanium frame that was posted up for sale on another board a few weeks ago - the asking price for that one was $125k.
really? I wonder how all those ghetto boys in the hood wind up with all those uzzies and other fully auto weapons in their gangs.
Any criminal can get around gun control laws. He is after all a criminal. but we know all of this anyway. A better translation would be, gun control is mainly about keeping guns out of OUR hands and detering US from getting guns while criminals are able to get it via the black market or otherwise.
BUT, back on topic. I was talking about self defense. Not concealed carry per se, but you can, as I understand it, walk down the street with your AR 15 legally or any rifle if you want. (I wouldn't recommend being that open and brazen about it).
So, if you have the feds "permission" to own a full auto (dealer or paperwork junk and bundle of money), can you carry it around.
carry any firearm down the streets of my town, you will be charged with "going armed to the terror of the public". I asked every LEO agency in my area before I taught my first CCH class, and that was the reply.
Most of the Sherrifs I asked said you probably would not be charged in rural areas, but you likely would be stopped & talked to since there is no shooting within 500 ft of a dwelling law now.
Most of the Sherrifs I asked said you probably would not be charged in rural areas, but you likely would be stopped & talked to since there is no shooting within 500 ft of a dwelling law now.
Well, hellooooo!! When was the last time a criminal was able to buy any gun legally from a dealer and pass the NICS check? Show me ONE criminal that holds a Class III FFL license! Heck, show me one with any kind of FFL license! The ghetto boys in the hood STEAL their weapons from lawful citizens! Heck, they even steal them from each other!
Gun control is NOT about keeping guns out of poor peoples hands. It's about disarming America! It's about eliminating the last check on our Government! It's about making us, the citizen powerless to take back our lives that an overly oppressive government takes from us!
The 2nd amendment is NOT up for interpretation nor are our other RIGHTS! The 2nd amendment does NOT allow just the military to possess weapons, in fact, the 2nd amendment rightfully gives the citizen a RIGHT to own weapons equal to our soldiers including full auto!
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED does our lawmakers NOT understand??
Our elected officials have perverted our RIGHTS including the 2nd amendment and we let them!
The gun control act of 1934 NEEDS to be repealed! This was the act that prohibited ownership of machine guns and simply owning a shotgun with a barrel shorter than 18" and overall length of less than 26" without paying a TAX to the federal govt of $200 to own such AND to pay that same $200 TAX each time it is transferred! How ludicrous is this? Any person who violates or fails to comply with any provisions of this chapter shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000, or be imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
For owning a shotgun with a short barrel and short stock!?!?
Other "acts" and laws have been implimented since that need serious review. The BATF has gotten WAY out of control. These guys are part of the IRS... since WHEN does the tax man have para-military control of our lives? Since WE allowed it!
Absolutely! There are a very limited number of them owned by citizens in the US legally.
I know of one individual that owns one, legally along with a substantial collection of full autos and brings them to full auto shoots.
Here's a vid of one being shot at knob creek during the yearly full auto shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TaAJOYMro0&mode=related&search=
With all due respect, KC-griz, you are wrong. What your friend may have is a G18 post-sample (if he's a FFL/SOT), or if he's someone very well connected in the MG world like Dan Shea or Reed Knight, he might have a transferable conversion (if such an animal even exists), but there are no transferable factory G18s in the US.