What do you guys think? A snubby question.

C

chaim

New member
I got my Taurus 605 snub a little more than a month ago.

At first I liked it and thought that it was easier to shoot than I expected. On my first range trip I shot 50 weak .357 rounds, 50 .38+Ps and 100 .38s. It did rip my hand up a bit (literally, I have a scar) but I liked it. I changed the grip and it doesn't rip my hand up but I find that the more I shoot it the less I like it.

All but the weakest .357s are almost too much (and even the weak ones are unpleasant and I don't shoot many .357s in it). Even .38+Ps are uncomfortable and .38s feel similar to stout .357s in my 3" K-frame. I find that I am not very accurate with it (I know- I've heard that small snubs are among the hardest guns to get good with) and as I get to about 40 rounds my accuracy really begins to deteriorate due to the pain in my wrists.

Yesterday I shot 100 .38+Ps out of it. By the end of the day my hand really was hurting (I guess I could have injured it with my .22lr bolt action rifle I was also shooting- yeah right :rolleyes: ). I have minor carple tunnel (sp?) and/or minor arthritis in my right wrist and it was really hurting, in fact it still hurts today and is slightly swollen. I know if I stuck with regular .38s it wouldn't have been as bad, but they still aren't pleasant and start hurting my wrist in this gun after a box or two (also I prefer +Ps for defensive purposes and if I will use +P I want to be able to practice with +P).

While I usually have a slight preference for revolvers I am beginning to think that in smaller pistols I should stick with autos. I will probably give it another chance because a snub is so useful but I'm not so sure if I want to rely on it. Basically I guess I want some advice on some of the options I'm considering.

I could limit my practice to a box at a time and probably be ok (well, with .357s I'd probably keep it to 10-15 weak rounds at a time) and I could occasionally go to two boxes with regular .38s, but with such limited practice with such a difficult gun to master it would probably take me a decade to get good. Another option I'm considering is buying a Taurus 94 (9 shot .22lr, 2" small framed snub) for most of my practice to spare my wrist while still allowing me to improve faster than 50 rounds per range trip would (of course I'd continue shooting the 605 at nearly the same rate I otherwise would have). Also, I could bag the 605 and get a Taurus 731 (similar gun but a 6 shot .32H&R mag) or 941 (similar but 8 shot .22mag) in order to have a useful snub that I could also shoot enough to get some good practice with. Both the .32 mag and .22mag are a little weaker than I'd like but should be fairly acceptable self defense rounds and would be far more comfortable. The last option is to give up on snubs and only go with a small auto (though in a pocket gun a snub has several advantages over an auto).

I did just buy a Bersa Thunder in .380 so if I abandon the snub I will have a gun that can serve MOST of the same purposes.

This question may soon gain more importance. It is starting to look fairly likely that I will be going to grad school in PA (Duquesne in Pittsburgh- one of my favorite cites :D ) and PA is a CCW state. So by next fall I may be carrying and I will want a good, useable small gun that I can rely on for backup and for those times that a larger gun just isn't possible.
 
Oh, I left out my last, and cheapest option.

Since, at typical self defense ranges of 5-15 feet (and down to contact range) a man sized target is toast, I could forget about getting good with it and simply practice enough to keep myself familiarized with the gun (a box every month or two). Then my wrist is less of an issue and I wouldn't need to buy anything to accomplish it (of course I will probably buy a .22lr, .22 mag and/or .32 H&R mag snub but this would save me money for now).

This is my least favorite option. While I could safely use this gun at short ranges (the ranges where this kind of gun is most likely to be needed) and I am "combat accurate" with it at these ranges I don't really like making that kind of compromise. Of course money is an issue and I have the 605 now and I could be making too much of "getting good" with the snub.
 
Dry practice. Do about a 90/10 dry-to-live ratio, with the 10% serving mainly to verify the dry work.

Of course, if you want to shoot more than that (recreationally), the .22 snub sounds like a good idea.
 
I'm not entirely convinced snubbies are inherently inaccurate, although in my experience--computer wrist and arthritis included--they're often uncomfortable to shoot a great deal.

Quite a few years ago, I bought a Colt Detective Special .38 special revolver. I didn't expect much accuracy from it, and wasn't disappointed. I took it to the range a few times, and kept it as an under the mattress gun: it's accurate enough at close range for home defense purposes. Some years later, having worked up a very light, very accurate target load for my favorite .357 magnum revolver, I duplicated the load in .38 special cases, and took the Detective Special to the range. Hah! Was I ever surprised! No, she's not a match pistol, but she proved considerably more accurate than I'd thought. The difference? Old jacketed hollow points versus light-loaded hollow-based wadcutters.

I've recently found a Colt Python with a 2.5-inch barrel. Again, I didn't expect a great deal of accuracy from it, and again, wasn't disappointed--until I put on a pair of target stocks with a thumb rest and support for the heel of my hand. Muzzle blast and flash are noticeably more pronounced than with longer-barrelled guns, but she's nearly as accurate as my six-inch Python and Clark-barrelled Smith & Wesson model 27.

I believe there are three weak links in all this: snubby grips, my eyes, and my wrist. I don't still see very well even with a Merit peep sight, and my Detective Special's notch-type fixed sights aren't ideal for serious target shooting, but I've found bench-resting a snubby usually produces surprisingly good accuracy. My worsening sight and less than 100% dependable wrist are much greater impediments to accuracy than the barrel, I've found. No, you wouldn't want to try to carry a snubby with match stocks, but it might be worth your while to shop for grips that let you raise your thumb. I've got a pair of Hogue stocks that let me rest my thumb beside the hammer, and they help considerably. In my experience, not all target loads are created equal: one of my revolvers prefers 3.0 grains of Bullseye, but another functions best with 3.3, all other factors being equal.

As for my adventures with computer wrist, here are two pieces of free advice: 1.) take some aspirin or Motrin before you leave for the range, and 2.) have yourself checked out from stem to stern. I recently had a root canal on an abcessed tooth, and have lost over 90% of the neck, shoulder, upper back, and arm pain that kept me from shooting for months. What's the connection? I have no clue, but the dentist got the results my chiropractor, doctor, and neurologist couldn't.

Regards,
Standing Wolf
 
Having just gone thru a 6 month bout of shooters elbow myself I know where you are coming from. With the condition of your wrist I would advise against shooting snubs a lot. I am not a doctor but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night :D . Keep the snub for carry but don't shoot it much. You don't have to be a bullseye shooter with it for what its designed for anyway. Get a Glock 9mm or something in a 22mag for extended shooting.
 
My small frame snubs (640, 731UL) get taken to the range every 2nd or 3rd trip to have three or four cylinders of 158gr LSWC-HP +P/100gr JHP run through them to make sure I can still put them in the "ouch" zone in rapid fire.

My big snub, on the other hand, sees more range use because capping off .44 Magnums from a 3" tube is just such a kick in the pants. :D
 
Hi Chaim. You may know that I'm a big proponent of J-frames and similar revolvers for CCW BUT you have to be confident with your carry gun and be able to hit what you're aiming at. For that reason, I say that if the little revolver is causing you pain and potentially creating a flinch which detracts from practice with it, switch to something else that works better for you. If that's an auto, then so be it.

One of the reasons I like the J-frame is that I find that in equivalent size guns, the .380 ACP in small autos actually has quite a bit of recoil. I once owned an AMT .380 which had the same effect on my hand that your revolver has on yours-it stung and made shooting it unpleasant.

I'm not doctrinaire about it, as I carry both revolvers and autos. If the round gun ain't working for you, find something else that will and that allows you to put the rounds consistently where they need to go and don't look back (as if you NEEDED an excuse to buy another gun
:D

Good luck and keep us posted.

Bob
 
Chaim, I was in a position similiar to yours awhile back. I had a Rossi 971 Comp (~2-1/2" .357 ported) that I purchased for my wife on a great deal. I hated that gun. I can shoot the hottest mags out of my 608 and that will never compare to the weakest .38's in the Rossi. It was painful to shoot and just the thought of the recoil would make me flinch. My wife, who's gun it actually was, refused to shoot it.

I bought it with 6 rounds through it from the first owner and I sold it to my sister with about 500 total run through. Now she has a 971 that she got a good deal on and I'm shopping for a nice pistol for my wife, but not a .380 (I had one along time ago, didn't like it) She'll probably get a nice .40 cal med-frame.
 
One of the reasons I like the J-frame is that I find that in equivalent size guns, the .380 ACP in small autos actually has quite a bit of recoil. I once owned an AMT .380 which had the same effect on my hand that your revolver has on yours-it stung and made shooting it unpleasant.
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Funny how different we all can be (and we can be from gun to gun).

With my wrist I usually do better with revolvers (more muzzle flip thus torqueing my arm up at the elbow v. the autos recoiling straight back into my wrist) so I really didn't expect this. I find my 3" K-frame .357 (a bigger, more comfortable snub) much more comfortable to shoot for an extended time period than my 1911 (though the 1911 has less felt recoil on each round). I really didn't expect this situation.

However, I haven't had a big problem with any of the small autos I've rented or tried and I do with my snub. I have shot (rentals or other people's guns) a Bersa Thunder, a SIG 230, a SIG 239,a Mak, a Kahr P9, a Kahr MK9, and a Kel Tec P11 with no problems. Two of those were .380s, the Mak is a blowback design with a more powerful cartridge than the .380, and one was an EXTREMELY light weight 9mm.

I still do want to give the snub another chance because it does have advantages over an auto for its mission. These guns are often (and for me would usually be) used in a backup role. Such guns are often kept in pockets where they are subject to a lot of lint or in ankle holsters where they are subject to lots of dirt, water and lint (from socks). A revolver would just be more trustworthy in such a hostile environment. Also, the revolver has the advantage during the winter of being capable of being fired from a coat pocket and still cycle to the next round.

Right now the consensus seems to be to stick with the Taurus 605. The suggestions being to dry fire more, to simply shoot it less (just enough to keep up familiarization) since the gun's mission doesn't demand much accuracy and there was one who agreed with getting the .22lr snub in addition for more practice.

Right now (with my wrist hurting like heck and with the joint cracking every time I move it), even though it isn't the current consensus, my inclination is to replace it with the 731 or 941. Probably the 941 since .22mag is much more plentiful around here. However, I can still be convinced (either to just keep the 605 or to have both) so keep the advice coming.

Thanks for all who have posted. Thanks to the new posters in advance.
 
Snubbies are NOT inherently inaccurate.
Many snubbie shooters are.

At best, they are difficult to master.
If your body can't take the required practice, time to go to plan B.

Bad guy INTENT on doin you in from seven yards will not be stopped with just any body or head shot. You don't have time to wait for him to bleed out. You need to be the best that you can be with whatever arm you choose.

Shalom Chaim

Sam
 
Snubbies are NOT inherently inaccurate. Many snubbie shooters are.

At best, they are difficult to master.
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I know. A good snub can be as accurate as anything else. However, they are much harder to shoot accurately. The sight radius is short so that can be tougher (though I do fine with a 3" K-frame and small autos with short sight radii). Also, the small framed snub is harder to control which, obviously, effects accuracy. Last, a j-frame (or equivelent) tends to have smaller sights than other guns. However, the gun itself is capable of supurb accuracy, it is just harder for most shooters to get the potential out of the gun.

Given that it is such a hard gun type to master and with my problems practicing I am wondering if I would be best off abandoning small snubs for small autos only, switching to snubs in lighter calibers (.32H&R mag, .22 mag or even .22lr) or, since I am "combat accurate" I could just abandon "mastering" it and just worry about keeping up familiarization.

Bad guy INTENT on doin you in from seven yards will not be stopped with just any body or head shot. You don't have time to wait for him to bleed out. You need to be the best that you can be with whatever arm you choose.
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True, and why the option of just accepting "combat accuracy" is the least appealling option for me. At the moment I am leaning towards carrying (when I get to PA) the Bersa as backup generally and getting one of the lighter recoiling calibers (again, the .32H&R mag or .22mag) for when a snub is more appropriate.
 
Snub with some heft ?
2½" Model 19 round butt....357 K frame. I have a pocket holster for mine. Right front pocket, easy to conceal and a lot easier to shoot than my J frames with stoutish loads.

Just a thought.

Sam
 
Chaim,


From what I hear the .32H&R mag is suppose to be very close to a 9mm ballistically.
It would make a good carry gun.
Ammo may be hard to find though.
 
No specific gun advice but a comment on the carpal tunnel. Folks that get that malady all seem to get afflicted in different ways. If that snub is raising that much cain as to hurt you for a day or two after shooting STOP using that gun now and get in to your doc. Do not take the horse's hind end route like me and wait to get better as you won't. My left hand got chopped six weeks ago and the right one gets done next week. My right hand is the better of the two. Six weeks ago I could shoot my revolvers one handed and as of this weekend with my right hand I can't even pull the trigger DA or thumbcock the hammer. Best of luck to you but get to your doctor ASAP.
 
Chaim (no flame intended! :) ), it seems you are going to the range & firing a lot of powerful loads through a small, light-weight gun and are concerned that you are being beat up by it.

I don't think it's uncommon.

Powerful snubs are hard on the shooter. While grip design will play a role, the lighter of weight & the harder it is. They really are not intended to be range guns, but guns that are carried a lot & shot a little.

It boils down to each individual (for defense) carrying the most powerful cartridge he/she can, in the platform that is easiest to carry.

My case in point: I usually carry my Kimber Ultra CDP, and range sessions will find me sending a couple of mag loads down range. However, most of my practice is with my 5" Stainless. Same controls, same sights, same cartridge but in a larger gun that is more pleasurable to shoot.

If you still like the gun, I would try practice with cheap .38 Specials, running a cylinder load or 2 of .38+P or .357 Mag thru it once a week or so just to stay sharp.

By the way - hope your wish comes true & you manage to attend Duquesne. The school is about 30 minutes from my home. And - see your doctor about the carpal tunnel!
 
To me, nothing conceals as well as a small framed snubby. This means you'll be more likely to have it with you more often; a good thing.

I agree with a previous poster that you can do lots of dry-fire practice, and minimal range shooting, as long as you have good accuracy at 10 yards or so. I find dry practice to be a valuable exercise to help improve DA technique, and help your familiarity with the gun. You can get away with this more with revolver, being inherantly more reliable and less dependant on the user for proper function than an autoloader. When you take the snubby to the range, shoot just a few maggies, and mostly .38's, and if you're a reasonably good shooter, that should be fine.
 
I like my snubs that are chambered for the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge so much...

..that I bought TWO! A very slightly used S&W 331 "J" frame and an excellent Taurus 731UL.
Both are good shooters with light recoil. Every magazine I've read says that the .32 H&R Magnum is more powerful than a regular .38 Special and only about 16%-18% less powerful than a .38 Special +P.
I have been having trouble with arthritis in my hands too. (Damn Kentucky weather!) Both these lighweight snubs are easier on my hands that any .38 Special snub. They hold six rounds instead of five, too.

JMO,
KR
 
C.R.SAM

Snub with some heft ?
2½" Model 19 round butt....357 K frame. I have a pocket holster for mine. Right front pocket, easy to conceal and a lot easier to shoot than my J frames with stoutish loads.
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I have a 3" S&W 65LS that I like a lot. I like it so much that I want a 19 or 66 with the 2 1/2" to add to it.

The 65 will likely be one of my primary carry guns when I go to a CCW state. However, I've tried it in my pocket (at home of course, I do live in MD) and it seems a bit big. Not just the barrel length, the frame size seems a bit too big for that (sags too much due to the weight in khakis, in jeans which are tighter that isn't really a problem but the revolver outline is pronounced). When/if I eventually get the 2" or 2 1/2" I'll have to see if it is any better. How much difference will a GOOD holster make and who makes a pocket holster for a K-frame?

Kevinch,

I once shot as few as 70 rounds in one trip :) . It does look like if I keep it I will have to limit it to about a box at a time. However, since I'm not that good with it and these little snubs are so hard to master I'm not sure that will be enough (while I am "combat accurate" with it I'm not very comfortable with settling with where I am).

J.R. Bob Dobs

To me, nothing conceals as well as a small framed snubby.
Click to expand...

Right now my inclination is to keep it until I can REPLACE it. I may get a .22lr or .22mag for easier and cheaper practice so I can practice with a small snub more, and comfortably, and then just shoot this enough to keep up familiarization. I figure with the .22lr or .22mag I can get better with snubs and still have the .38 and .357 capability, plus have another gun and one (at least in the .22mag) that I could also use as a higher capacity backup when I wish. The other option is to go with a .32H&R mag (the power of a strong but not +P .38 but hard to find the ammo) or a .22 mag (the power and muzzle energy of a .32 auto but easy to find) as my snub.

notbubba and Kentucky Rifle

I am very interested in the .32H&R mag. A gun that is almost pleasant to shoot in that small a snub while still giving a good degree of stopping power. If the ammo was easier to find, or if I was a reloader, it would be a "no brainer" but I rarely see the caliber around here. I may still get one eventually but if I replace my snub I will probably go .22mag (better stopping power and muzzle energy than a .32 auto which is a popular backup gun) which is very easy to find.
 
This just me but the reason I got the Smith Model 60 was to shoot the +P 158 Grain FBI load------------------ SWCJHP I think it is called and not wory about stress to the frame.

I like, nay I love shooting .38's from a snub. The .357 is an option just in case ammo got to be an issue if what's going on in MD was imposed on those of us living in free states.

I too notice an inordinate amount of recoil with the Remington 125 grain JHP but I love the accuracy out of the Model 60. My wife now has the Taurus 605 3" in the Corporate Office of her company (No kiddos allowed fwiw) and it is a "booger" with .357's but a dream with .38's. Something tells me the Chicago Office will never have the benefit of a well-oiled revolver but that's another post for another time.

Yeah the .357 Magnum is a mule out of my 2" Model 60 but something tells me should the moment of truth occur, I could handle it. I think you could too.
 
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