What do you do?

S

spacemanspiff

New member
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=6636286

See the video in the link as well for the back story.


Just because I haven't been posting news stories about gang activity up here doesn't mean its died down. While law enforcement has done some major operations and arrested many of them, the wars are still ongoing. Carjackings, drugs, and territorial disputes are occurring all over the east side of lovely Anchorage. The above link reports on the arrest of one suspect who attacked a person who happened to be wearing the wrong color hat. The surveillance video of the attack shows at least 15 assailants, jumping one man, which ends with him being shot once.

Some of you might recall that for a while, I stopped carrying daily about two years back. Since I started working as a bouncer last fall, and am exposed to having to deal with wannabe (and some for real OG types) gangbangers who do have their guns waiting in their cars, and they do threaten to 'put us in bodybags', I have begun carrying again. I am also making almost daily trips into the 'hot zones' to visit friends.

Suppose you were witness to, or perhaps a victim of, a brutal attack by a group of youths? Is what you carry enough to stop the threat of 15 attackers? Some of whom are armed themselves? Most noticably of high school age, including females?
 
I would get myself and a few other friends to go have a chat with city officials as to why this is still going on. There's no excuse for this sort of thing. Maybe it's just from living in a small town the past couple of years, but if that happened here there'd be quite a few angry town people looking for action from elected officials.

In the meantime of course, carry and train the best you can.
 
Situations are always so dynamic, sometimes it's difficult to say exacately what you would do. I had an incident a few weeks ago where I walked into the middle of some gang activity.

It was a 2 on 1 situation. I assume the 2 were gangmembers as they both had on the same, solid-colored dickies clothing. It really wasn't a situation that I could avoid because they were standing right in front of where I needed to go. As the situation progressed, I got out of my vehicle and went to the trunk to get some supplies. Meanwhile, you had one guy who was threatning the 1, and his partner was seemingly trying to flank him from the other side...typicall 'jumping' situation.

This only lasted about a minute, but I had made some clear and definitive decisions in that time. For one, I was not going to allow either thug to flank me, I wanted them in my sights at all time. Two, there was no weapon displayed, so I was prepared to just let the fight go on if it was going to happen. Had it been a 2 on 1 fight, or if a weapon was displayed, that would have changed the dynamics. For a two on 1, I was ready to place my weapon in the trunk and intervene. If a weapon would have been displayed, I was prepared to draw. Lastly, guaging the situation as more initimidation than something actually about to happen, I concentrated on remembering their faces and the car they drove away in.

I came away from that incident realizing how important it is not to get into 'analysis paralysis', that is, watching a situation unfold and rehearsing different responses in my mind without settling on a specific course of action. As Chris alluded to, it comes down to training and being prepared to make those tough decisions and apply critical thinking skills...in the blink of an eye.
 
Well, I had kind of the same thing but I wasn't involved.

My family and I were at a local mall when two ghetto queens stood up in the middle of the food court (about 30 yards from me) and started showing their a$$es as my mom used to say. All of the rediculous sterotypical behaviors ensured with the head bobbing and the finger wagging. Well, it was just talking until the boys associated with each one showed up. Then it got ugly really quickly. Even at that, it was minor. The security guards came over and were as useless as balls on a bishop....they were acting just about as bad as the thug kids. The security guards didn't quell it and the particpants milled around until they left.

Suddenly, there was a huge commotion in the actual mall area adjacent to the food court about 30 yards away. The fight between maybe 4 people turned into an all out brawl. I would guess that there was 50 kids actually fighting. Parents with kids were having to grab them up and run to keep from gettting swallowed up by the meyley.

At the onset of the original problem, I hurried my family up (because you frankly never know when guns will come out for trivial reasons). When the big fight happened, I grabbed everyone up and we moved the other direction. None of my business and no reason to interviene. During our escape, many of the participants were running our way to get out of the fray (for fear of the po po showing up) and I made dannged sure that none even came close to my family. I am 6'3 285 so there weren't many who wanted to come our way.

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Suppose you were witness to, or perhaps a victim of, a brutal attack by a group of youths? Is what you carry enough to stop the threat of 15 attackers? Some of whom are armed themselves? Most noticably of high school age, including females?
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If you have 15 attackers coming at you and they are armed and determined, you are probably going to die regardless of what CCW you have. For that, you need a rifle or shotgun (I frequently have both in my car)

Either of my revolvers, service or snub will do just fine even in these circumstances. one of three thing will happen. Nobody wants to get shot. 1) the gun is produced and they run 2) a shot is fired and one goes down and they run 3) they don't care because they are crazy and all 15 of them have their guns out and I am going to die (regardless of what CCW I have)

In any event, 15 armed against 1 armed are not good odds.

Your brain will get you out of trouble more than how many rounds you have in your gun (handgun or rifle)

In 1921, Texas Ranger Red Burton faced down 15,000 sheeted Ku Klux Klan members near Waco
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I got that from http://www.houstonpbs.org/site/PageServer?pagename=prd_rangers

I have this video on tape. The full story of this is that Rager Burton didn't just face down a mob of Klansmen once...but three times. Once during an armed conflict. He and the Sheriff of McClennon County Texas went out to where a Klan rally was being held. The Sheriff and Burton asked that the heads of the rally lift their sheets and ID themselves so as to know who was responsible for the event. Some were about to comply while others became indignant and started an argument. One thing lead to another. A shot rang out. A fight began between the two peace officers and a mob of Klansmen. The sheriff was shot and seriously wounded. Burton fought his way out with gun (probably a revolver) and fist getting himself and the wounded Sheriff to the car and out of there.
Burton, though wounded, refused treatment at the hospital. With the Sheriff out of action he was the only peace officer left in authority in the county. He left the hospital with an angry Klan mob outside ready to kill him. He stared at them and walked right through them. NOBODY touched him.
Later, they came back with premeditated plans to lynch him. They gathered outside a coffee shop where he was having a cup of coffee for breakfast. He sat there calmly finishing his cup. Got up. Went outside and went on about his business as the mob stared at him. NOBODY touched him.

They don't makeum like that anymore
 
Witness to an event like that: call 911 on my "tactical cell phone." Observe, but do not get involved.

Victim of an attack like that: Attempt to "run away," but as soon as I'm in fear of my life (and with that disparity of force, that would be pretty quick) I'm shooting.

Is 12 rounds of .380acp enough? I dunno. Its what I'll have. (Unless I have 10 rounds of .45acp.)
 
Last night at about 11;30 pm Spiffy and I were enjoying the sunshine outside (pay back for that comes in February) and we were discussing the viability of open carry in these troubled times.

Add that to this discussion.

PS I also spend a great deal of time in the hot zone :)

WildcuztheresamanouttheremightbeyourmanidontknowAlaska
 
Normally, I am a big proponent of open carry. I believe it is a deterrent to muggers and what not.

In the Anchorage situation...I have my doubts on its effectiveness. If these people are brazen enough to "jump" the police, what would they do to a "regular" person with a gun on his hip?

I just envision bad things happening. I think I would upgrade and use that low capacity pea shooter (yeah, you Ken :eek:) you have as a back-up gun. I think capacity is what would really be needed. At a minimum extra mags.....

As far as Spiff's question, I think stopping the attack is out of the question. There might be a bunch of people, but not all are equally responsible. What if you shot the younger brother of one of them? Maybe he was just with his brother because their parents kicked them out (or insert any other reason)? Maybe the one you hit wasn't doing anything? You are supposed to use your gun to stop the threat. While killing someone who wasn't armed or might not have even done the actual assaulting might stop the threat, it just doesn't seem right.

Now if I was the victim of the assault, game on (figuratively speaking of course). I imagine I would go slide lock a couple times while running as fast as I can. Well, I hope I would, you never can tell how you will react unless it actually happens to you....
 
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Good answer, Trapp.
Many of the gangbangers have no perceptible fear. Sadly, even the ones who are not involved in gangs still tend towards behaving like thugs. Maybe they are exaggerating, but I constantly hear accounts from supposed 'good guys' who brawl over anything and everything, brandish guns, and simply act stupid.

The incident in question, we don't know if the victim was trying to de-escalate, back down, though we know the victim did try to retreat back into the store. There was no real way to escape.
Now think about it. You are boxed in. At first there are two people attacking you. Then another two. Then ten more join in. Doug is right. Odds are, you will probably die, or at best, suffer a gunshot wound.
 
You asked a bunch of questions there, Spiff:

"Suppose you were witness to, or perhaps a victim of, a brutal attack by a group of youths? Is what you carry enough to stop the threat of 15 attackers? Some of whom are armed themselves? Most noticably of high school age, including females?"

As a generality, . . . most folks are fairly well intimidated by anyone with a firearm.

They are more greatly intimidated when they can both see the muzzle flash and know the lead is coming in their general direction.

The third great intimidator is they see their buddies/friends/comrades, etc. laying around bleeding out.

No, . . . 25 rounds of .45ACP hardball will probably not stop 15 attackers who are determined to take me out, . . . but I'm not going out alone, . . . and my bullets are not sexist, . . . definitely co-ed ammo.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
I thought about this one a lot....tough call.

On one hand, if he isn't actively shooting people, he might take your money and leave. On the other hand, he might not have thought the others were ugly enough to shoot and might decide I am. Who knows. Perhaps the cops show up as he gets to me and mine and one of them is taken hostage.

I would be okay to live and let live. I would have my gun out and on target, ready to present or ready to shoot if he came my way. In my mind, if he comes my way, he forces my hand.

As for shooting, a lot of BG have taken to wearing armor. I think that I would (being in the position I am on the floor) shoot him in the balls or pelvic region (it hurts I am told) and then every other shot to the torso. If I can manage it, one to the head.

A strong word of caution though, the media would probably potray this as "the robber was content to just rob patrons until the other guy started shooting". It would be ugly.

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This could be a good thread, is it necessary to spoil it with crap like that?
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Give me a break...someone is a little too sensitive. It's not like it was a racist remark in any way at all...sniffle.
 
"This could be a good thread, is it necessary to spoil it with crap like that?"

What's the problem?....it was a very accurate description of the trash. Lack of education, lack of shame, lack of care for the results of their actions, lack of pretty much everything that makes society run and worth joining. Ghetto queens.

If a black man robs a liquor store, then a BLACK MAN ROBBED A LIQUOR STORE. If a white guy stabs someone, a white guy stabs someone. Simply reporting facts of the situation (whatever it may be) doesn't make a person a racist.

Just for the record, the group in this case was largely black. Had they been white, I would have described them as ghetto queens. The phrase wasn't a judgement on their race, it was a judgement on their behavior. If you don't like it, move on pal.

Oh and just for the record, I am white....well American Indian mostly.....and my dad used to call us kids yard apes or porch monkeys. Not because we were black but because were were running around climbing on things and jumping off the porch. That was before "truly enlightened" people like you moved in and decided to associate certain words like ape or moneky is a slanderous term for black people. To me, you are the racists.

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Hmm dad called us crumb munchers...and ankle biters...and yard apes. I might have been mentally scarred from that NOT!

As for the riot, I don't believe it's the duty for one or two officers to stop a full blown riot. Do what you can until backup arrives and try get good descriptions of those in the fray.
 
We almost need to CCW MP5K's it would seem. Trench coats and sawed off shotguns too... almost seems like somthing out of a movie...:(
 
Moderator Note

More light, less heat here, please.

If you have something personal to say to or about another poster, please take it to PM or email. Keep thread posts to the original questions.

Thanks,

pax
 
Ohioleadslinger,

Where I grew up used to have a horse race track. So, supposedly there is an old film of a riot that broke out there during or after a race. The local cops show up and are seen getting out of their car, pointing or gesturing to the crowd, and nothing happens, so one cop pulls out his gun and fires a warning shot, and still nothing happens, so they look at each other (probably say something) and get back in their car and drive off (presumably to await reinforcements).
 
LOL can you imagine what would happen now if cops shot in the air??
In cinci the cops carry digital cams to capture riots and later use it to identify actors.
 
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