What Do I Have?

A

ASchul98

New member
This old gun was my grandfather's. I don't know where he bought it, but it's a decent shooter and I really like the wood on it. On the top of the barrel it says H. Burgsmuller & Sohne, Kreiensen. On one side of the barrel it says 5.6 x 35, and on the opposite side, in the exact same location, it says .22; there is a serial number (12837) on the barrel. There is another number on the bolt (4825) that I'm assuming is another serial number. This firearm is currently in .222 Remington, but that was my grandfather's doing. I believe the gun was originally chambered in 5.6 x 35, but I can't find anything on that caliber whatsoever, anywhere.

I have attatched pictures. If anyone has any information on this rifle, I will be very thankful. Also...this rifle is currently drilled and tapped for scope mounts, I'm assuming by my grandfather, but not sure. It also had an iron sight mount on the side, or at least something I thought looked like one. It is drilled for that as well. So, having mentioned that, what would be the best way to attatch modern iron sights to this rifle? Can I use the drilled holes or whatever? I already have a front sight on the rifle from the previous owner, attatched via dovetail, so I don't need to worry about that.

Any help will be appreciated very much.
 

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5.6x35R Vierling. Basically the German version of the .22 Hornet round. H. Burgsmuller & Sohne were a German firearms manufacturer in the late 1800-early 1900s. From the pictures someone has converted it with a new mauser bolt.
 
Alright, thank you. Is it especially valuable? I'm not going to sell it, because it reminds me of my grandfather, but I'm curious. Any help with the sights would be valuable as well.
 
Fascinating; I have not seen a Mauser made for the dinky little 5.6 Vierling calibre. (Conversion to .222 Remington would be along the same lines as a Model 70 Winchester from .22 Hornet to .222.)
Can you show close clear pictures of the magazine and bolt face?

It has two sets of holes on the right side of the receiver bridge, either for two different receiver (peep) sights or a botched job with the first pair out of place.
The scope base holes on top of the action are probably for Weaver or for Redfield SR bases.
So you can put a scope or sight on it without much trouble, I just can't tell you exactly what to get by looking at pictures.

Resale value is not great because of the caliber conversion and multiple sight base holes not done by Herr Burgsmuller. I would bet that Grandpa or a friend brought it back from The Occupation, confiscated from a German to keep him from shooting at Americans. Gun control in action.
 
While my grandfather was in WW2 (served on a PT boat, but never saw action), he was not in the European theater. I bet he probably bought it at a gun show or something.

I'll go see if I can get a couple pictures of the bolt face and magazine. I should have mentioned that the rifle is single-shot. I believe this was done during its conversion to .222 Remington, as I think it's been modified to not depress to accept more cartridges, but I could be wrong. I will get pictures.

Would this have been considered a high-quality rifle before its modifications? Was the original designer known for his work?

Thanks for the information so far. My camera is low on batteries so it may take me a few hours for more pictures.
 
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EDIT: Alright, here we go.
 

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Very neat. Looks like it has some sort of auxiliary extractor and a single shot loading tray in the magazine well. Apparently built on a military Mauser action, from the thumb notch on the left and the serial number showing on the bolt stop. But nicely done, I have seen reference to Bergsmuller before and he ran a good shop. High quality for sure.
 
It would be interesting to know what the bore slugs out to be on this one and exactly when that rifle was made.

Many European ".22 Hornets" were actually chambered for the older .22 Winchester Centerfire, which was, and for many years remained, a pretty popular cartridge in Europe. RWS was, I believe, the primary manufacturer of this cartridge up until it was dropped in the 1980s or so.

You'll find many references to the 5.6 Vierlin cartridge in rifles made prior to the .22 Hornet entering commercial production around 1931.

The .22 WCF uses a .228 diameter bullet, the Hornet a .224 dia. bullet. There are differences in case dimensions, as well.

While not technically interchangeable because of the dimensional differences in the case, in practice the .22 Hornet can often chamber in 5.6 Vierling rifles although, given the Hornet's higher operating pressures, may not be a good idea with older guns.
 
Even the 22 Hornet had different dimentions . Early bullets were .223" and modern ones .224" IIRC.
 
It would be interesting to know what the bore slugs out to be on this one and exactly when that rifle was made.

Many European ".22 Hornets" were actually chambered for the older .22 Winchester Centerfire, which was, and for many years remained, a pretty popular cartridge in Europe. RWS was, I believe, the primary manufacturer of this cartridge up until it was dropped in the 1980s or so.

You'll find many references to the 5.6 Vierlin cartridge in rifles made prior to the .22 Hornet entering commercial production around 1931.

The .22 WCF uses a .228 diameter bullet, the Hornet a .224 dia. bullet. There are differences in case dimensions, as well.

While not technically interchangeable because of the dimensional differences in the case, in practice the .22 Hornet can often chamber in 5.6 Vierling rifles although, given the Hornet's higher operating pressures, may not be a good idea with older guns.
Click to expand...

Yeah. My grandfather didn't really talk with anyone except my father about guns, and he bought this one right before he died of cancer. He was a really nice man, worked at the Remington plant in Ilion, NY along with my father and he passed on a lot of very nice guns as well as some my father got from the inter-staff auctions they had.

I don't know how to slug a bore, but if It's easy, I can try.
 
There is not much you can do about it, if it is a .228" there is little selection in bullets except for a few made for the .22 Savage High Power, too heavy for the likely rifling twist of a 5.6 or .222.

It will shoot well or it won't.
 
I removed the barreled action from the stock today and found:

F. Beckert 7 18 39s F. Beckert (after this there's a bunch of indecipherable proof marks)

The weird thing is, in the part of the action just before it meets the barrel, there is just a bunch of letters and numbers. Just random numbers, letters, and some symbols, stamped into the metal. I can't get a good picture of it. What could this mean?
 
H. Burgsmuller & Sohne was a fairly large company by the time this rifle appears to have been made.

It's entirely possible that F. Beckert was the primary gunsmith on this rifle.

The 7 18 39 SEEMS like a date, (July 18, 1939), but I don't think it is.

General European convention on numeric dates is day then month then year, so it would most likely be marked 18 7 39 if it were made in July 1939.

The rest of the letters and such probably were some sort of internal code used by Burgsmuller as they manufactured firearms.
 
5.6 x 35 Vierling is the old 22 Winchester Center Fire. While the 22 Hornet is based on the 22 WCF, the shoulder of the Hornet is further forward than the WCF, and you're forcing the Hornet cartridge when closing on a Vierling chamber.
 
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