What could I expect from these two loads?

T

TruthTellers

New member
Hi all, I don't post much in the handloading section, but I'd like to know what veleocity and accuracy I could expect from the following loads I'm thinking of loading in .32 S&W Long for the upcoming Henry Big Boy in .327 Federal Magnum:

1. .315" 47 grain round ball.

2. 98-100 grain full wadcutter.

Both will be using Unique powder and yes, I realize I'll probably have to single load these to get around likely feeding issues.
 
Alright, nobody has an answer for me. That's okay, but what type of performance can I expect using round balls? I would think that they would be an accurate projectile given they're perfectly spherical...
 
Round balls will be accurate at very close range if you don't try to push them too fast.

The wadcutters will outperform them in every way.
 
What kind of bullet lubricant are you going to use on the round balls? What is your intended use for the round balls and the wadcutters?
 
I'd like to know what veleocity and accuracy I could expect
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First off, no one can tell you what velocity you are going to get unless you tell us how much (charge weight) Unique you are planning to use.

How fast is too fast?
round balls and most wadcutters are either pure lead or a very soft alloy. Provided they are a proper fit in the bore, they should give good accuracy at short range, until you start pushing them too fast. How fast is too fast? It depends on the fit in the bore and the exact alloy composition, but generally pure lead starts to strip through the rifling (and lead the bore) when velocities get above 1000fps.

The bore matters. Muzzle loaders, designed for pure lead bullets (generally) have deeper rifling and can reach the full limit black powder allows (approx. 12-1300fps, but standard rifling usually will not give satisfactory performance at that speed with pure lead bullets, a harder alloy is needed.

but what type of performance can I expect using round balls? I would think that they would be an accurate projectile given they're perfectly spherical...
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This is a yes, and no kind of thing. While they should fly straight, a round ball has the least bearing surface (area in contact with the rifling) so the rifling does not get as good a "grip" on the round ball as it does on a conventional bullet. Whether or not this will have a significant impact on accuracy depends on the tolerances involved in the fit of the ball in your gun's barrel.

Given the information you provided, this is the best answer I can give you.
 
I figure that if I wanted to maximize velocity with a lead round ball, I was going to powder coat it to prevent leading of the bore. So, I figure that if powder coated, the diameter of the ball would end up somewhere around .318" and would fully obturate and give a slightly longer bearing surface than a .312 ball would.

My goal behind the .32 S&W Long round ball load is to basically make it a reloadable .22 LR. I figure the round ball weighing around 50 grains is the closest I can get to a .22 LR bullet weight.
 
When you stuff that soft lead ball into the case you will squeeze the sides down a bit. Your powder coating might not hold up to that very well.

If the ball is not in deep enough to put a minor roll crimp over the ball you won't build much pressure. You are already looking at running a light for caliber load out of a low pressure cartridge where you need to keep the velocity on the sedate side to prevent stripping what little bearing surface you have. You will find that your powder choice will not work well as it is too slow for this application.

You are going to find that a very fast powder will work much better.

I did my experiments with Red Dot, Green Dot, and W231. Red Dot worked best for me.
 
My goal behind the .32 S&W Long round ball load is to basically make it a reloadable .22 LR. I figure the round ball weighing around 50 grains is the closest I can get to a .22 LR bullet weight.
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I would use Bullseye instead of Unique for both the wadcutter and the round balls. I shoot a lot of Lee 93 grain round noses, but always use Bullseye for the lightest loads. It will meter better than Unique and is a faster powder...better suited to .32 S&W Long.
 
SHR970 said:
When you stuff that soft lead ball into the case you will squeeze the sides down a bit. Your powder coating might not hold up to that very well.

If the ball is not in deep enough to put a minor roll crimp over the ball you won't build much pressure. You are already looking at running a light for caliber load out of a low pressure cartridge where you need to keep the velocity on the sedate side to prevent stripping what little bearing surface you have. You will find that your powder choice will not work well as it is too slow for this application.

You are going to find that a very fast powder will work much better.
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SHR, keep in mind that these would be shot out of a .327 chambered rifle. If you're saying what I think you're saying, I can up the pressure quite a bit, if not just dump the .32 S&W Long case for a .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Magnum case.

And I do intend on seating the ball past the hemisphere to get a decent crimp.

If you think I'd be better served not using the .32 S&W Long and using .32 H&R or .327 cases, please let me know. However, keep in mind that I'd like to keep the velocity down below 1050 fps or whatever is subsonic.
 
The problem with round balls in cf cartridges is that it is difficult to get uniform seating and, therefore, uniform accuracy. What you need to do is to first trim your cases to exactly the same length. Then adjust your seater to set the ball a little past its center relative to the end of the case. Then apply a bit of crimp. You can set your seater die to set and crimp in one operation with a little work. I would use fast powder rather than Unique, but Unique will work. I also like Universal Clays for 32 Long. Its rate is similar to Unique but it measures a bit better and burns a little cleaner. You can easily get velocities of 1000 fps and better pushing 90-100 gr bullets from a 4-in barrel and more from a rifle.
 
Lemme ask this as it may be more sensible: what velocity could I expect from a .32 S&W Long loaded with the standard 98 grain lead round nose when shot out of a 16 inch or longer barrel?

And then what effect would that bullet have on small game like squirrels, rabbits, raccoons, fox, etc.
 
This depends on the powder. A fast powder like Bullseye will not give much more in a rifle than it does in a handgun. A slower burning powder will give more increase from the longer rifle barrel. Using 3.5 gr of Universal Clays pushing a 95 gr semiwadcutter I got 1100 fps from a 10-inch TC Contender in 32 long. My guess is you could easily get 1400 fps, maybe more, from a rifle barrel. This would be more than needed for good kills on small game. For that, something in the 90-100 gr range at about 1000 fps would be lethal on rabbits and squirrels. The round nose bullet would be less destructive on meat but a SWC would probably be a better killer. Let experience with hunting be your guide. I don't have enough.
 
My thoughts.

The round ball seems like an incredibly bad idea. That's not you balls are used in nearly any other application and the design is not good for what you are attempting, there are nearly a dozen serious problems with the functioning that I can see.

.22lr rounds are optimized to use in rifle or pistol, your rounds won't be. You are running a risk trying to runt loads through that chamber and bore with a powder far too slow for it.

Maybe you can tune it to be effective 99% of the time, if so, fine, run it singly, check your bore every time, so on, do what you choose to. It's not like it will probably kill you. If you stick a bullet, the second one into the barrel probably won't blow the gun up. It's a pretty heavy gun.
 
something in the 90-100 gr range at about 1000 fps would be lethal on rabbits and squirrels
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Oh absolutely something at 1000fps is lethal on rabbits and squrirrels. You can THROW things fast enough to be lethal on rabbits and squirrels. ;)

I understand you desire for a .22LR equivalent and it is do able, but its a specialty load, and the most important thing isn't velocity, you have more than enough easily available, the important thing is small game accuracy at reasonable range.

And that is something that can only be determined by shooting and experimentation in your gun. And yes, Unique isn't the right powder for "popper" loads. Bullseye or Win 231, a couple grains or so, will probably work fine, but use proper safety practices and ALWAYS make sure the light load did clear the barrel before shooting anything else.

Good Luck
 
SHR, keep in mind that these would be shot out of a .327 chambered rifle. If you're saying what I think you're saying, I can up the pressure quite a bit, if not just dump the .32 S&W Long case for a .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Magnum case.
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Pressure is not going to be your problem....velocity is.

Using Round Ball you must necessarily keep velocity down. Being 42 grains in weight it won't be hard to hit over 1000 fps with the right powders. But to have the powder burn consistently it will need to be a FAST powder. On a 32 Long case I have hit over 1000 fps with 85 gr. lead out of a 5.5" Single Six Magnum. Of course these were just a bit over SAAMI max pressures for a Long.

The problem you want to avoid is stripping the ball and leading up your bore. You will need to keep velocity somewhere below 1000 fps or accuracy WILL suffer tremendously. Another thing you will need to take into account; the B.C. of a round ball is way different that a 22 bullet. You will more quickly shed velocity and have to deal with more drop out past 25 yards.

One thing you might consider is down loading in 327 brass to 32 Long or H&R levels with 71 or 85 gr. cast. The first thing in favor of this is feeding: as in no issues. Second if you load to say 22 long rifle velocities you will have similar ballistics farther out. Third you will have about twice the punch on the other end. You'll have plenty of power for small game while not being excessive. Fourth, your top velocity concerns go away.
 
SHR870 said:
Pressure is not going to be your problem....velocity is.

Using Round Ball you must necessarily keep velocity down. Being 42 grains in weight it won't be hard to hit over 1000 fps with the right powders. But to have the powder burn consistently it will need to be a FAST powder. On a 32 Long case I have hit over 1000 fps with 85 gr. lead out of a 5.5" Single Six Magnum. Of course these were just a bit over SAAMI max pressures for a Long.

The problem you want to avoid is stripping the ball and leading up your bore. You will need to keep velocity somewhere below 1000 fps or accuracy WILL suffer tremendously. Another thing you will need to take into account; the B.C. of a round ball is way different that a 22 bullet. You will more quickly shed velocity and have to deal with more drop out past 25 yards.

One thing you might consider is down loading in 327 brass to 32 Long or H&R levels with 71 or 85 gr. cast. The first thing in favor of this is feeding: as in no issues. Second if you load to say 22 long rifle velocities you will have similar ballistics farther out. Third you will have about twice the punch on the other end. You'll have plenty of power for small game while not being excessive. Fourth, your top velocity concerns go away.
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I thought about downloading .327 to .32 S&W Long velocities, but I figured that would give me other issues, not to mention using more powder than I probably need. However, the elimination of feeding issues is very appealing.

What if I used 71 grain FMJ .32 ACP ammo instead? There's no crimp groove as the bullet is meant for .32 ACP, but if I was single loading, would it matter?

One thing I will say is if a non-round ball (i.e. standard .32 caliber bullet) will give me about the same performence as a .22 LR, I may as well not bother with the round balls at all. Like I said, the only reason I thought about them is the projectile weight was the closest to a .22 LR bullet.
 
Another question I have is I've been thinking about whether .32 is the best solution to my "reloadable .22 project" by this I mean, would .38 Special be better? Could I weaken .38 Special down to near .22 levels for small game? Even if it required single loading, would .38 Short Colt be a possibility here?

Obviously, there are a lot more .357/.38 Special rifles out there than .32 SW/H&R/.327 Magnum rifles.
 
My personal "reloadable .22" is the .22 Hornet. While I haven't done it, yet, as I have no pressing need (because a have several thousand .22LR and don't shoot them much these days) I can download the Hornet to .22 rimfire velocities, short or Long Rifle, or .22WMR speed, or up to full .22 Hornet performance.

There isn't much of an issue with a huge empty case, in the Hornet, even with just a tiny pinch of powder.

The trick is, of course as always, coming up with a load combination that is accurate enough for your needs.

Downside to the Hornet, ammo (including brass) isn't cheap or available on the shelf everywhere. It's a niche round, and I wouldn't recommend buying one JUST so you could reload it at .22LR levels.

The .38 Special has the advantage of components everywhere. You can "weaken it down" to any level you like, as long as the bullet reliably exits the barrel. You can't exactly match the performance of a .22LR because you are shooting a slug 4 times heavier (or at least 3x), much, much slower.

So, say you load .38 wadcutters at 600fps, you won't get the .22s trajectory or penetration through hard surfaces. But you will have a very effective pest eradicator & small game getter at close range.

Spent a summer (ages ago) doing that with a friend, loading .38 wadcutters to about 600fps out of a 6" revolver, and blasting sage rats in disused stock pens. On rodents even that slow speed is massively effective. Like getting hit with a cannonball effective.

During testing we also found that level load would not reliably penetrate an old refrigerator wall. In fact, 5 out of six, BOUNCED OFF!

As to using .38 Short Colt brass (to reduce excess case volume) it will do that, a bit. It also adds to the cost and complexity of your loading set up, over just using the .38 Special case.

If you are worried about the powder not being at the back of the case near the primer (and very little powder, to boot), there are a few tricks you can use without using shorter brass.

One is simply point the muzzle up before shooting.
Another is to use an inert filler. Oatmeal will work. (requires a bit of load development :D)

If you are going to do "the Limbo" loads (how low can you go?) equip yourself with the tools you will need to drive a stuck bullet out of the barrel BEFORE YOU START. You won't regret it if you ever need them.

If you do feel a short case is the way to go, you can trim .38 Special cases shorter, I think cheaper than buying .38 short colt brass.
 
You could always just use a 22 for 22lr level loads. There are tons of different .22 caliber ammo options - 22lr quiet, 22 CB, 22 short,, etc. I know its been difficult to find 22lr for awhile but its getting easier and easier. Also finding an appropriate rifle will be much easier and cheaper.

As far as .32 caliber vs .38 caliber it will be much easier to find brass, bullets and load data for .38 special.
 
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