What can you do about close shots with a high powered, scoped rifle?

T

thaddeus

New member
I am wondering how to contend with a close shot when I have a high powered rifle.

Say, for one example of many, I wound an animal and now I have to go find it. I may very well encounter it at 30 yards.

Do I take the scope off, and put on a rear iron sight? Like, have a quick release scope, take it off and put on a rear site such as the Ashley ghost ring? Can I leave the front sight on permenantly with a scope on the rear?

Are there other options?

I don't like having a rifle limited to long range, and even if it is a hassle, I would like to have the option of making close shots when I am walking through brush or whatever.

thanks,
thad
 
You have just described the reason that the 3 x 9 variable power scope has become the number one choice for most hunters. The 9 power setting is enough for remarkable accuracy with any big game hunting grade rifle at distances to 400 yards and the 3 power setting is fast and easy to use at close range.

One key to this type of versatility is becoming comfortable with using the scope all the time. My advice is NOT to use the "see-thru" mounts which force you to place your head in an unnaturally high position to use the scope.

Try this: Mount the gun with your eyes closed and seek a natural position with your head. Open your eyes and have someone measure from the top of the receiver to the center of your aiming eye's vision. Buy scope mounts and rings that center the scope as close as possible to that dimension. Then the scope will be at your natural line of sight and you will soon learn to do all your aiming with the scope. Even quick "snap shots" are easy with a little practice.

Yes you can leave the front sight in place. It won't affect the scope at all.

If you still want quick, open sighted capability when approaching downed game you can take a few years to become proficient with a 44 mag revolver (if you aren't already) and pack one as a back-up if it's legal where you hunt.
 
Thaddeus. May I suggest a 1 3/4 to 6 power scope. 6 power is more than plenty for 99% of your long shots, 1 3/4 power is fantastic for those short shots.
This is the way I do it. I hunt with it set on the lowest power (1 3/4). If a longer range shot pops up, I usually switch to the appropriate higher power. I have made 200 yard shots, with no strain, at 1 3/4 power. I have 3 of these scopes. One on a 30-30 Marlin, one on a .280 Remington and one on a 7x57. Two are Redfield's (unfortuneately out of business) and the other is a Burris. The Redfields are 1 3/4 to 5 power. Try one. I think you'll like it, especially the close shots. I got one deer at 8 feet as it ran past me, having been spooked by another hunter. 1 3/4 again. I am slowly getting away from 3 to 9 power scopes. The only really high powered scope I have is a 4 to 12 power Redfield 5 star, on a .300 Magnum. The only reason I have that one, is it came on a .270 I bought. I figured the 300 needed it more. I have a lot of 3 to 9's, but I almost never take them off 3 power. Why carry the dead weight, if you aren't going to use it? Just one man's opinion
Paul B.

COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
 
Paul B. brings up a very important point. No matter which power range you choose, leave it on the lowest setting all the time unless the higher one is called for. The reasoning is: If you need the low power you probably don't have time to make the adjustment. The opposite is usually true when the higher power is useful.

Good point Paul B...and the 2 x 7's are nice too.
 
Sort of a continuation of scope mount basics from the other thread.

A better idea may be pivot mounts. These are hinged rings that allow the scope to be simply swung out of the way so you can use the open sights for short range work.

There are some detachable mounts that allow very fast removal of the scope, but these let you with the problem of what to do with the scope.
 
Jim. I strongly recommend the Pachmeyer Lo-Swing if you plan to go that route. I have one on a .338 Mag. that's been on the rifle since 1969, and it has never been a problem.

Paul B.

COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
 
Thaddeus:

I would definitely NOT take the scope off. I would guess that will ruin the zero.

As to how to handle the wounded animal at short range, I'd consider all of the following:

-Shoot under accuracy and time pressure at complicated target colors/backgrounds to find what technique works for YOU (sighting over the top of the scope, finding a blurry scope sight picture, some kind of point-shooting, etc.) (note techniques will differ from rifle/scope setup one to another)
-Bring a handgun powerful enough to deal with the animal in question
-Only take a shot if you are certain of an incapacitating hit (I know this is easier said than done)
-Don't go into close-range situations with this handicap. I mean, if it was a Lion in an African safari, I'd say NO WAY am I gonna go in there with a handicapped rifle/scope situation.
-Bring another rifle with ghost ring sights for the close range "going in after him" work.

Edmund
 
Thad,

Colonel Cooper opined that whatever fool first decided that a scope should be three inches from your eye was sadly mistaken and probably worked for the army ordnance dept. You can get something like a 1 x 6 and you'll still be partially blinded because you simply can't find a moving animal quickly through that little tube three inches from your eye.
Take whatever scope you have on your rifle and sell it cheap to someone you don't like then have a Burris or Leupold Scout scope mounted out on your reciever and you'll never regret it, ever. This is the way scopes should have been designed from the beginning. You want long range accuracy and quick close range target acquisition - this is how its done.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Use the lowest power, I like 1x4's, and fixed 4s, and keep both eyes open! I shot a mt. goat at about 8 feet (on Kodiak, Keith) using a 4 power scope. Obviously, the scope view showed only hair, but with both eyes open I could aim and make a well-placed shot. And Keith is right about the scout scopes.
I really like the 1x4 set to 1 for chasing bears in thick stuff; very fast, much brighter than irons.
 
Just how far out can a scout style scope be used? 300 yards? 500 yards?

I tried to sell the idea on another thread of putting a scout style scope on a 20" barreled Rem700 and in so many words, I was told that it was a dumb idea.

I would like to go that route for closer shots, but was told that it would not work for longer shots. What's the longest range I could reasonably shoot with a scout style scope? A scout style scope setup that would cover ranges from 50 yards to 500 yards would solve all my problems.

thanks,
thad
 
Thad,

If you're shooting 1000 yard competition then a Scout Scope is the wrong tool. If you're shooting deer or elk at 300 to 400 yards max (and you shouldn't shoot any farther than that) then a Scout is the correct choice.
Its easily demonstrated. Borrow a good rifle with 2 1/2 power Scout and shoot a dozen times at a six inch target at say 300 yards. Now do the same thing with a 9 power scope - you won't find much difference in your group sizes.
I'm talking about big game hunting here. If you're a varmint hunter a high power variable with a lot of bullet drop doo-dads and what-not may be just the ticket, but if you want to hunt big animals get a Scout.
The advantages to the system are much easier to demonstrate by actually shooting such a scope than describing it verbally. It works and it works better than anything else thats come along - its the way hunting scopes should have been designed in the first place.
Heres another test - take your 3x9 scope and shoot a group on 3 power then another on 9 power. You won't find any significant difference in the groups. Now picture that 3 power scope with a long eye relief mounted way out on the reciever so thats its almost like a red dot scope - you can see all around it and your target acquisition is instantaneous. Its just the way to go but you'll have to try it for a season to see the many advantages. It just works better.

Anyone who tells you that a Scout won't work long range field shooting doesn't own one.



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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Unlike Mr. Rowe, I have never been on an African safari and never tracked wounded lions. But I have used rifles on close up targets, and I will still hold that, with due respect to others' opinions, the best thing to do under 50 yards is to get rid of the scope and use open sights. I would think this even more true for close up dangerous game. The time spent getting the right scope picture could be a problem.

One does not remove the scope, one simply leaves the open sights on, uses a pivot mount and swings the scope out of the way. Swung back, the scope is right back in zero. Believe me, it works.

Impressive optics are not the solution to every sighting problem.

Jim
 
I do not believe Mr. Rowe has been to Africa or on any type of safari...I can tell you that his focus is heavily upon hunting the most dangerous of animals-man. As such, his focus is on worst-case situations. I feel his advice will be sound.

I believe you will notice this quote from him: -Don't go into close-range situations with this handicap. I mean, if it was a Lion in an African safari, I'd say NO WAY am I gonna go in there with a handicapped rifle/scope situation...

My personal opinion would lean heavily toward a 3 power or less scope. I have a 2X LER scope that I plan on mounting to my SUB-9 for work from 1 to 150 yards. I also like having a backup handgun, and always carry one when hunting. In the past, my preferred backup was a Glock 24. Hitting a deer's vitals at 30 yards with it would pose no problem...I plan on having a Taurus .41 soon, and will carry that as backup.
 
Good morning, Spectre,

Regardless of anyone's qualifications, I believe the original question was oriented toward hunting, not police or self defense use. It was a valid question and deserved a serious answer. Not every hunter will (or legally can) carry a handgun and not every hunter can kill a deer at 30 yards with one.

Jim
 
The rifle I am buying has about 20 rounds through it and comes with the scope mount and rings. So, I took the plunge and ordered a good scope at closeout prices before they were all gone.
I think I like the idea of the swing mount. I will invest in some rings that swing up later and put some iron sights on it. I am actually really good with iron sights, so that would work out great.
If it matters, I am being politically correct in saying it is a hunting rifle. I might hunt with it once in a while, but it is for all purposes, self defense included. I just highly doubt that it would ever have to play that role.

Now, where can I get some of those swing mounts? I will be using a 3-9X50.

thanks everyone,
thad
 
Jim,

A good afternoon to you, sir. Though I can easily shoot a deer's vitals at that range (hell, I can hit a 20 oz bottle at that range) with a pistol, it would be silly to use a sidearm when I have a shoulder arm. My advice regarding scope WAS oriented toward hunting, and anything else that one might need to do with a rifle out to 350 yds or so.
 
Thad,

Any reasonably well stocked gun shop should have various kinds of scope mounts you can look at. Weaver makes a pivot mount, and I think someone else does. (Pachmayr?)

A big scope may present mounting problems and require a high mount. You might consider giving up some optical advantages in favor of low mounting. Look at other scopes as well as at mounts.

Spectre,

With dangerous animals (of any kind) at short range, there simply may not be time to get down to the stock and get a good view through the scope (regardless of power). The old African hunters preferred a shallow V rear sight and a big gold or ivory bead front. I tend to agree with them.

Even see-through mounts require scrunching down to use the iron sights. I prefer to get rid of the scope altogether at short range and the best way to do that is the pivot mount. QD mounts are too slow and leave you with a scope in your hand wondering what to do with it.

Without the scope in the way, iron sights can be used. With the barrel visible, point shooting becomes a realistic option.

Jim
 
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