What can rival the .308?

G

Glock_Racer

New member
Why is the .308 cartridge the most popular among long-range/target shooters and military/police snipers? I know the ballistics are good but which other calibers can compete with the .308? I heard the new .300 WSM (Winchester Short Magnum) has some good stats to it. What can rival the .308?
 
If you're talking accuracy, there are a host of cartridges that immediately spring to mind -- .223, .30-06, .243, 6mm Remington, and the list goes on and on.

Perhaps the single best reason why the .308 is so popular for these applications is that there are a ton of really good rifles, bullets, accessories out there for the .308, and a host of really good gunsmiths who have a lot of experience in making .308s shoot well.

Virtually all of this stems from the fact that the .308 was the military cartridge of choice for a number of years, and gained a fantastic reputation for accuracy in conjunction with the M-14/M-1A.

People know it, and it works.
 
The .300 Win Mag is gaining a lot of support among long-range shooters last time I checked. Also, a lot of police SWAT teams are now using that caliber.

If I didn't already own a .308 and a .338 WM, that is the caliber that I would probably be looking for.
 
the 308 is just really popular since it has been around for ever. There are a lot of calibers that are slowly taking over for it. The 300 win mag is becoming a great sniper and long range round. So is the 338 Lapua mag. The bullet companies are making heavier bullets for them for use with quick twist barrells. The 308 is also good becuase of guns like the Sig PSG-1. It is hard to fit a 300 win into a semi automatic gun. The 7-08 is very popular with rifle sihlouette folks for the same reasons as the 308.
 
The question “what can rival the 308Win for long-range/target shooters and military/police snipers?” requires at least four different answers, I think, since you’re talking at least four different types of shooters with different needs. Police counter-snipers have very different needs than military snipers since their employment, expected range for shooting, accuracy needs, etc are very different.

Police counter-snipers need extreme accuracy (brain stem shots) for relatively short-range engagements (well under 100 yards), and can use relatively fragile equipment. At these short ranges, and given headshots, a bullet’s BC (for wind-bucking) and size (for creating large wounds in the torso) is relatively a minor issue.

Military snipers need to be able to place center-of-mass shots at 800 meters and need a rugged rifle that will survive much abuse over many days in the field. A military sniper needs a heavier bullet, for creating large wounds, with a high BC to reduce the drift effects of cross-winds. A military sniper might be better served by a cartridge with greater long-range capability such as the 338 Lapua Mag or 338 Win Mag or whatever, whereas either would be ridiculous overkill for a police counter-sniper.

For general, moderate-range target shooting, the 5.56 NATO is probably a better choice than the 308 Win, since it’s cheaper, more inherently accurate, and has less recoil. For long-range shooting (1000 yards and beyond, 5.56 NATO isn’t a great choice). 6.5x55 Swede is another good choice; it’s inherently accurate, flat-shooting, high BC & SD, low recoil, and there’s a ton of great bullets out there from manufacturers such as Sierra. Sierra makes a 155 gr BTHP in 6.5mm that looks promising (I’ll report back once I load ‘em up).

For long-range shooting (1000 yards and beyond), there’s lots of better choices than 308 Win, starting with the 7mm Rem Mag and .30-’06 and working up from there.

Semper fi,
Bruegger out.
 
I have a Remington PSS in .300 Win. Mag. that a friend built up for his sheriff's department because the department decided that they needed the ability to make that 1,000 yard shot. It turned out to be too much gun for their designated marksman and reality sank in for the department. Saner heads questioned the probability of having to make that 1,000 yard shot and determined it was zip.

I bought the rifle from my friend at a very good price as a result.
 
Got another 300WM mag to get rid of cheap? :D
Maybe I'll have to start calling pd's now to see what they're unloading.
 
The .308 Win is one of those rare cartridges that just flat works as designed! I would be hard pressed to come up with a better round for hunting all but griz. In fact, I'm taking one tomorrow morning on a deer/black bear hunt! By the way, the latest edition of Speer's reloading manual bears this out; with bullets up to 165 grains, the .308 Win actually has the edge over the venerable '06. With 180 grain bullets they're about equal. Heavier than that the marginal edge goes to the '06. But here's the rub: I've never seen anyone hunting with an '06 use a bullet heavier than 180 grains!

Any deer out to 350 yards or so is venison in the freezer. Elk out to about 300 yards (Although I know of one hunter who harvested one at a distance considerably greater.) will quickly give up the ghost. Ditto for moose.

My Featherweight will group less than MOA. I think I'm am proving to myself that I need no other rifle. I better stop here before I put my other rifles in the classifieds.

Good shootin'
E
 
Hi Sam,

Do you hunt on the East Coast? From what I understand, big bullets a popular out that way.

I hunt out west where most folks load for long range work.

Regardless of choice, if it works it's gotta be a winner! And winning can be defined by meat in the freezer!

Good huntin', Sam,
E
 
Elvis, I think if you'll check, the handloader of an '06 will always have an edge over the .308--mostly because few factory '06 loads are at as high a pressure (safer in older guns). The exception would be a short-barreled '06. A good comparison is shown on Federal's ammo box for both the .308 and '06 in the Premium High Energy loads.

IMO, the lesser use of the 200-grain and 220-grain in hunting, as compared to "the old days" is more bullet design than anything else. Bullets are available today which give just as good a penetration as the Big Heavies of the 1950s and earlier.

Art
 
Hi Art,

The difference between these two cartridges, especially when considered in light of most hunting conditions and game is negligible. Before deciding which to add to one's hunting battery one would have to define the weight to attribute to the nuances of the two cartridges. If pinpoint accuracy is critical and hunting requirements can be satisfied with bullets of 180 grains or less, the .308 Win might get the nod. A Nosler manual I own indicates that the .308 Win is one of the two most accurate factory rounds ever designed, the .222 Rem being the other. As the Speer manual indicates, the .308 Win is not effected by short barrels; e.g., 22" barrels, while the '06 is quite sensitive to lenght of tube. Also, the short case of the .308 Win actually is to its benefit, causing it to achieve higher velocities with bullets up to 180 grains.

My Featherweight in .308 Win will achieve 2920 FPS with Hornady 165 grain Light Magnum loads and just over 2900 FPS with Remington 150 grain bullets. I get these ballisitcs and MOA to boot; althought I did have my action bedded, and it has a slightly heavier than a 3 lb trigger pull. Beacuse I have not hunted elk with it as of yet, I have not chronographed 180 grain bullets. However, I do expect them to deliver about 2700 FPS. Remember, this is out of a 22' barrel, ideal for mountain hunting, which accounts for all of my big game hunting. In contrast, an old hunting pal of mine had a pre '64 Featherweight in '06, and he was experiencing much difficulty getting published ballistics out of his hand loads. If I recall correctly, with his 22" barreled gun he could barely get 2700 FPS with 180 bullets.

One of these days I'm gonna get an '06, but as of yet I just can see it replacing my .308 Win. However, for sentimental reasons I am fond of the '06.

Before I bought my .308 Win I honestly thought it was a worthless cartridge in terms of big game hunting. I foolishly thought it was inferior to the '06. However, as I began to see more and more .308 Winchesters in the Rocky Mountain states, including Wyoming where hunters use it for moose, I thought I had better take a closer look. In fact, one old Wyoming hunter used a .308 Win exclusively for all of his big game hunting, and he enjoyed widespread success with it. Then he came into possession of a 7MM Rem Mag and he was forever changed...but that's fodder for another thread. My research (fairly extensive) concluded that it may be the finest mountain rifle caliber out there. Once I realized its utility I bought one. Now I'll never be without one in my hunting battery. It is that good a round!

Good huntin',
E
 
I'd never advocate replacing a .308 with an '06. As I've said before, if a fella is trying to decide between the two, the actual determining factor (to me) is whether or not he's a reloader.

If he is, go '06. If he's not, go .308. (Bolt guns and hunting orientation, obviously.)

I think most folks here would agree that the .308 is a better benchrest/competition cartridge, but for hunting there is just no need for better than one MOA accuracy.

I must say I have a bit of difficulty in believing that the .308 will deliver the velocities you state, from a 22" barrel. Seems a bit high, given all the published data averaging around 200 ft/sec slower and from longer barrels. If your chronograph shows these speeds, though, stay with it!

I've noticed that Bambi has neverbeen able to distinguish a difference of 100 or 200 ft/sec...

:), Art
 
Dear Art,

To say the least, I was quite happily surprised by what my chronograph read. Hpwever, it does fall in line with what others have mentioned about this cartridge.

Take care,
E
 
Didn't Hornady introduce a "Light Magnum" line of bullets? I don't
remember how long ago, but I've read in the past that the
Light Magnum .308 approximated the .30-06, and that the LM '06
approximated the .300 Win Mag, and so forth.

ANM
 
AN-M, disrecall about Hornady, but Federal has in their Premium line a "High Energy" loading for the .308 and the '06 which jacks up the muzzle velocity about 200 ft/sec. For instance, the 165-grain bullet in the '06 to 3,150. The .308 is a couple of hundred ft/sec below that.

The retail is around $30 a box, or about $20 at "Big Stores". I've tried the '06, a very few rounds :), and they sorta feel like there is an extra 200 ft/sec or so. An Aussie emailer sez he's chronographed them at factory data.

Art
 
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