what brass for long run?

A

axis223

New member
I'm going to the store later in hopes of getting more brass. they carry Winchester 100 packs, AE 250 packs, hornady 50packs for the same price as win 100 packs.

I'm using Remington now but cant find it like I can win and AE. does it matter if say I find a good spot for 223 rem brass and switch to say win later or will I have to do work ups again?
 
I for one who does not shoot competition load mixed head stamps, ie; rem, win, etc. I do keep my hornady brass separate just because they are a bit pricey and I dont buy many. I have yet to see a difference in my groups using said mixed head stamps. Just my opinion and I am sure you will see many others that disagree with me.
 
A rule of thumb is your powder charge weight will change about 0.1 grains for every 0.16-0.19 grains difference in case water capacity under the bullet, depending on the powder. That's an average of 0.175 grains water capacity change for each 0.1 grains of powder.

From the table at the 6mmBR.com site, about 1/3 of the way down the page (scroll to it) titled, .223 Rem Case Weight vs. Capacity, you can see the difference between Winchester and Remington was about 0.3 grains of water in the samples they had at the time, and that Hornady matched the Winchester. So, it would be a little less than 0.2 grains powder charge difference to try to match pressure exactly. Since that's no more difference than the precision most people get from the best powder measures, it's something you can expect to be able ignore from the standpoint of safety concerns and to tweak only if you saw an unwelcome accuracy change. That could still happen for other reasons.

That said, Winchester and Remington both have some of their brass made by outside contractors, so you can't really know how representative the numbers in the table are. Thus the old rule to reduce the charge and work back up any time you change a component lot number would apply. You can also measure the water capacity of the empty cases if you want to go about it that way. Select samples the same length or trim them to the same length yourself, plug the primer pocket with wax or clay, weigh them empty, then fill with water level to the case mouth (no meniscus) and with no bubbles or drops on the outside, and weigh again. The weight difference is then what is called Case Water Overflow Capacity. Since the bullets are the same and will subtract the same volume from both cases when seated to the same COL, the difference in this number will do. You can do the test on a dozen cases from your new lot and use the average for your comparison with some other brass you had.
 
Thee's an internet rumor going around I've seen in a couple forums, that Winchester and Remington are getting out of the business of supplying brass to reloaders. Can't confirm that though...

I'm one that reloads/shoots for fun, mostly accuracy, but not at a competition level. I have not found any one manufacturer of brass to be any better than another (yet). I load .223 for a Handi -Rifle, 308 for a Ruger bolt gun, 30-06 for my Garand, mostly to get good groups, and other calibers jes fer shootin'. While I sort my brass for these rifles, I have not recorded any loads with a particular headstamp as excelling over other brands...

It's normally good reloading practice to start over when a component is replaced, but for a .223, my only concern would be using max. or near max. loads in 5.56 brass. Some report internal dimensions are smaller in a 5.56 and cause higher pressures in the smaller capacity case...
 
Actually, if you look at the Lake City 5.56 brass in the article I linked to, it is lighter and has more room inside than the commercial brass. With .30-06, Winchester is a little lighter than LC, but LC and HXP and Remington and Lapua all seem to be in the 192-196 grain range, depending on the lot. It's only with .308 and 7.62 that the military brass consistently averages heavier than the commercial brass by close to 10 grains, with some outliers as much as 40 grains different.
 
AE is Federal. Federal brass is known for being softer than other brands. Only means it doesn't last as long. Otherwise, I've never seen any accuracy difference between brands of brass. Nor have I ever had to work up the load again due to changing the brass alone.
"...same price as..." Just a brand name thing. Kind of like Cadillac and Chevy parts. Some brands like Lapua are more expensive due to where the stuff comes from. Import duty makes it cost more. However, 'the store' may be a small shop that doesn't get the same kind of credit terms for volume that say Midway does. Stuff just costs more from small shops.
"...water capacity..." Really only applies for very high end bench rest shooting. Makes little difference otherwise.
 
I like to keep mine separate, maybe not an issue but helps mentally and soring out rounds as well.

FC is softer, but I think fine as long as you don't push back the shoulder too far on setback. Working on the first runs of 308 and 4 runs and good.

I like RP, a bit lighter than FC but next highest weight and seems solid. Food Ford Truck sort of brass.

Lapua is very good and as you get 100 a box vs Nosler or Hornady at 50 and close to the same price. Get it on sale at a Box store and that would be my choice.

As note3d the military thing seems to be an old wives tale. FC is heaviest, RP is next, then comes Winchester, Lapua etc in that range. Military is down there with Winchester.


PPU seems to be decent. Still have to run long term but looks to hold up there with RP.

My take is approach max loads with ALL brass with caution.
 
If I go to the range on a windless day and get a bunch of 1/2" 5 shot groups at 100y with a 223 rifle I have never shot before with mixed brass.... It is hard to imagine how matching brass is going to matter in the windy conditions I usually find.

If you are a competitive shooter, you have to do everything imaginable in an all out effort to win. But I just buy guns, build guns, and shoot animals.
 
Winchester and Remington aren't what they used to be. Federal isn't much better (arguably worse in some ways).

If cost was not a factor and I wanted to stock up on brass, I'd be looking at Lapua and Norma.

For .223 Rem, specifically, I'd just track down a bunch of once-fired Lake City brass (preferably all the same lot) and call it a day.

Beyond that, I'd prefer PPU over Win, R-P, or any of the Federal brands.


Thee's an internet rumor going around I've seen in a couple forums, that Winchester and Remington are getting out of the business of supplying brass to reloaders. Can't confirm that though...
Click to expand...
It's not a rumor.
It also isn't, necessarily, true.

Remington has told multiple distributors and high volume customers, multiple times over the last 4+ years, that they will not be intentionally supplying the component market (other than primers) until increased demand for loaded ammunition subsides. They are not 'leaving' the market, they just aren't supporting it for the time being.

They even had a public press release on their website in 2014.
The press release was long-winded and convoluted, but the bottom line was:
Loaded ammunition is more profitable and a larger market.
Components (bullets and brass) will not be intentionally produced, but some over-runs may be released when available. (As just happened with some .224" and 6.5mm bullets in early April.)

Winchester hasn't officially announced anything, as far as I've seen, but they do seem to be following the same path.
 
I am not much on ‘THE SKY IS FALLING’ but during the last 6 crises I did not get involved, I was busy finding components; if I had to guess I would believe most of it found me.

Then there is that problem with brass that is soft; who measures?

F. Guffey
 
Unless your on the extreme upper fringes of safe loads, I wouldn't let the differences in commercial brass keep me awake at night even though the "correct" answer is to always work up with a change in any component. I would work up again with military brass since the differences are more significant.

I can't imagine buying new 223 brass either, though.
 
Case life

Redding type S FL bushing dies, make brass last longer. Or thin the necks by outside turning. Most standard FL dies over work all brands of brass.
 
All of my .223 Rem loads work well regardless of head stamp. For my bolt action I use a lot of Hornady brass. It is not because it is so much greater than the others. It required less prep work, and the primer pockets are not crimped so there is one less step to mess with. I get half MOA groups or better in my Savage Model 10 FSSV. The same loads get One inch or better from my unscoped AR at 50 yards. My vision limits iron sight testing to 50 yards for groups.
 
Double the count for the same money at this stage of your reloading seems like easy math to me . I'd go with Winchester and when it's time to buy the high end brass I'd skip right on by Hornady and get Lapua .
 
I found top brass but seems to be a mix of headstamps for a good price but just found 250 LC 223 for $49

I didn't know LC made 223?
 
These days I just buy Norma and Lapua brass. That said, I always got good service out of Win and Rem if I prepped it after weighing. There was a lot of weight variance. And Nosler is great, but doesn't seem to last as long as Lapua and Norma.

Unless a fellow has a very accurate rifle to start with, there's not much point in weighing and pepping brass. But if you buy Norma, Lapua, or Nosler, there's no need to weigh or prep anyway.
 
"250 LC 223 for $49

I didn't know LC made 223?"

LC is Lake City, MO Army Ammunition plant. They make 5.56MM US ammo. Specs are same as 223. It is very good brass. That is double what you should pay.
GIBRASS.com has 1000 for $100 processed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top