What are your expectations for the future?

Handy

Moderator
While I involve myself in these discussions (because I think it important WHY people think what they do, more than WHAT they think), I am increasingly troubled by the belief that the so-called "issues" we debate are actually completely unimportant.

Will the relative treatment of Rights and cultural norms mean much in a country that is getting sectioned up by global corporations? Will your gun rights matter when there is no work for the majority of Americans?


Alarmist? Probably. But what is holding us from backsliding into oblivion? Is our country really qualitatively different from 1950's America in terms of wealth, influence, efficiency or quality of life? Are we a generation facing down global Communism, winning the space race or making up for the darkness of the Great Depression?

I don't think so. We don't have a society, technology or mission that is really any different than we had in 1975. The internet fails to actually achieve any sort of new understanding - it just allows factionalizing to occur at a greater rate than ever and encourage the spread of disinformation and rhetoric.

Corporations are now bigger than ever before, dominating the attention of the governments that rely on them for GDP. Wealth IS moving away from the center.

Education is faltering, and no one knows if it is educators, junk food, ADHD, video games, teen pregnancy or budgets that are the cause. Autism comes out of nowhere to affect something close to 1 in 100 children - for life. Asthma and obsetity leave their mark on way too many kids as well.

I frankly don't see how anyone is doing anything more than coming up with different (and mostly ineffective) ways of pumping the bilge on our sinking ship. Like I said in the other thread, we aren't thinking big enough.


At the time I advocated the US going into space. It is familiar territory and Americans have a social set up more conducive to massive changes in economy and mission than Europeans. But an economic revolution could also be achieved by actively attacking fusion power, nanotechnology or genetic manipulation. They all have varying levels of affect, and inherent danger - but all are able to change our paradigm.


Why? Because I'm getting the very sick feeling that the US is about to graduate to the post-world power status that the British have worn for so long. They once influenced the world, now they're more of a footnote. How are we so different? We don't do much of anything that can't be done as well in many other lands. Our ability to open more Tex-Mex chain restaurants and write video game code doesn't count for much.


The future is China, unless we step up. They have the type of cultural control, eager public and general resources to execute an economic revolution when it becomes necessary. Personally, while I have no beef with Chinese people, they are a culture of serfs, and that is not a culture that I want to see become the movers and shakers of the coming century.


We need to stop talking about trying to "fix" America so it resembles some idylic Leave It To Beaver vision of a past we never had. The march of time is either a bull we ride or a steamroller. We are exhibiting way too many hallmarks of statists in a world that has less profit margin to divey up.


I would seriously recommend you all examine our world and recent history to determine for yourself if we are on a road that is sustainable. I fear we are going from holding our own to economizing, economizing to tightening the belt, and from there to closeout prices for the highest bidder as desperate adults pledge their allegiance to ANY intity that will promise to preserve a mockery of their former affluence and station in a world that doesn't need any more picket fences, mortgages and SUVs.

China? Corporations? Or a leadership that advocates change at the most basic level? Your call.
 
Handy, your fears are well founded and will come to pass, IMO.

Our national and PERSONAL debt combined with our slavish support of the legislators who not only SUPPORT so called "free trade" but actually AID the idiotic premise ....WILL..... destroy what is left of the industrial base of the US.

When you see figures like the average American having $49,000 for .."retirement"... nothing else need be said.

The game is over for the US.

Now, be a good American and buy as much as possible from big retailers who import most of their stuff from Asia and justify it by saying you are .... SAVING MONEY!

:barf:

P.S. Gold is dropping at the moment and for a while will offer the very last opportunity to insulate yourself from what is coming down the road.
 
And the "future"....IS....China.

They're as vibrant as ..we.. were 100 years ago. And ..they.. have the entire world at their feet wanting their goods.

But, they learned early on that the best way to STAY ahead is to keep the people under an iron thumb. A "mistake" that our corporations happened to miss in their rape of America.

The "rape" only started when "free trade" was allowed.

Aw hell. I better go shoot sumpin. I'm gettin worked up.
:)
 
Cyclical nature of civilization - the eventual fall of our techno-civilization. Back to a local scrap and kill existence in the remnants of all our junk.

Rebirth in 1000 years and kids learn about us and Rome.

That's my serious view but I am too lazy to say why just now in detail. The two major reasons are:

1. Our inability to hold the young to high standards.
2. The intense short time profit motive as compared to long term planning that is going to destroy our industrial and worker base. Thus, we head to a third world a few / rich and many poor culture that ends in a blood bath.

I'll be gone before that anyway.
 
History is filled with the empty husks of many a burned and buried empire.

I take comfort in looking at the night sky and seeing light that left a star before the the birth of the first town. It lets me know that the political problems and concerns of today, no matter how large they loom in our minds, are in reality just a small part of a vast canvas of space and time.

I also believe in a personal God. My faith tells me that the outcome, no matter the desires of men, is already done and God is the author not men.

From that perspective I do not dread the future, like I would if I focused on the events of the last few decades.

Hardly answers your question though. I guess what I see is a world continuing in it's quest for control. A contest between the values and needs of this world and it's cultures/industry (cheap labor, higher production, energy, consumers, producers)and the unchanging values and needs of human individuals as spiritual creatures - whether those spiritual values are positive (love, loyalty, freedom, honesty, truth, inalienable individaul rights, respect) or negative (hate, betrayal, control,power, deception, judgementalism, the greatest good for the greatest number).

More simply I see it as a progression (not necessarily in a good sense) from:

individual/small tribal/ family unit - nomadic - hunting gathering

to

larger social/cultural units - language/writing - towns then cities - agriculture and then first industry/skills trades

to

first nation states and empires - increased urbanization - increased industry and manufacturing - a process that has continued to the present day.

to

the next phase - multinational corporations and money markets that are more powerful than many nation states - an worldwide economy that supercedes and erases cultures, that promotes consumption/consumerism and production/marketing above all.

I see the US as being ahead of the curve in a metamorphasis from nation state republic to public corporation. China will desolve as a powerful nation state as money pumps into it and as the consumer culture begins to reach critical mass. The tight political control will fall apart and the Chinese will enjoy the freedom that we now enjoy - that is to say that they will trade their political masters for corporate masters. Corporations will increasingly set policy, raise environmental standards to freeze out competition and prevent unwanted innovation, and people will increasingly have to submit to invasion of their privacy for drug testing, background checks, lie detector tests, health checks, camera monitoring, dna testing, tracking of finances, purchasing patterns, gps/chip tracking, internet/television habits, reading habits, eating habits, pc speech requirements in the workplace, monitoring and requiring or prohibiting specific healthy habits and exercise habits off the job, and we could all continue with the list. I also see the continued establishment of under the table monopolies. I mean I have to laugh at the idea exspoused by some that oil is somehow a free market - between the oil companies - the oil countries - and government regulations the oil industry is about as controlled as it can possibly be.

Despite my pessimism for the immediate future - in my life time and probably my kids lifetimes - I do see things eventually changing for the better - just as the nation state has had it's time, the corporation will have it's time, then it too will recede - for what I'm not sure - but it will be different.

If some futurists are to be believed all this is pointless anyway as the marriage of human and artificial intelligence will shortly make the world and the human race obsolete as we know it.

signed an old man who should know better than to try to predict the future - I think I'll go look at the stars for awhile.
 
Any society that does not evolve becomes moribund. Those that DO evolve also become moribund. I guess thats the way it is. Entropy conquers all. Every time.

However, in the short term, I expect constant low level global conflict, rising prices, and a continuing 'dumbing down' of America. You can follow that last part by visiting BBS gun forums. :D
 
I'm quite certain retirement will be a thing of the past by the time I get to retirement age, and I'll have to work until I die. Beyond that, I'm unsure.
 
Cyclical nature of civilization

The nirvana of ALL societies. It is naive for us to live under the delusion that the mighty US of A will remain the dominant power and economy indefinitely. China possesses undeniable potential and much of this can be contributed to the insatiable greed of corporate America along with the incredible ignorance of the American public.

However, I think the real crux of the problem is not China (or any other outsourced to country for that matter) or even corporate America. The real problem is our own ignorance and apathy for the future of American society. For every American citizen that remains vigilant of our personal and economic freedom, there are probably 5 other citizens who possess the above mentioned traits. Such behavior, historically speaking, is common in societies that have reached their zenith or "golden age" of development.

Some historians may argue that the US achieved this state during the second half of the 20th century (post-industrial revolution, baby boom). Some may argue that we have yet to achieve it. Either way, the end result is clear and the circumstantial evidence for US decline may be very much present.

Now the issue is WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT????????
Whatever options are exercised to alleviate this problem will certainly be entertained by our future predecessors. However, no options will be evaluated unless ETERNAL VIGILANCE is propagated and maintained throughout our society. After all, solutions to problems cannot be achieved unless problems are identified to begin with.



Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
 
I think alot of the problem stems from the fact that people don't care anymore. All people care about is what happens to them personally. Too many people are caught up in that video game code and Tex-Mex resturants that you talked about.

They're getting screwed, know they're getting screwed, and don't care as long as they have 500 channels on the TV and an SUV in the driveway.
 
We've reached a stage where "what to do about it" is just one more thing to argue over. The reality is the cable TV works, the check is there(from some source) every week and we have Big Brother to protect us(whether we actually need it or not). We aren't going to "do" anything about it because most people don't see a problem. I could offer my views on why but that would just start another fight, one best saved for someplace else at a future date.

The only real difference between the US and past nations which have fallen is the level of technology and our ability to maintain a certain stasis. We'll level off at some tolerable plane where everyone will have just enough to feel like they are OK. Safe. Being fair to the rest of the global community... Unwilling to rock the boat, and thus the US will keep on, in some devolved form irrelevent to the future.

The interesting thing to me is how many people I have talked to, even on this board, who when asked if they think the US will endure forever as the power of the world answer in the affirmative. I wonder what country they are looking at, and when they last took that look.
 
We aren't going to "do" anything about it because most people don't see a problem.

For your history homework tonight boys and girls, I want you to read chapter 10 in your textbooks: THE RISE AND FALL OF THE AMERICAN EMPIRE


Curiosity yields evolution...satiety yields extinction.
 
I must agree with Handy - I have had that feeling for a long while myself. I have had essentially the same train of thought.

In October of 2000 I beleive it was, while I was a Junior in high school, in the Military.com "Next War" threads, I posted that I beleived that the next war was going to be a terror war, they were going to try to topple us economically, and it was going to hit home with not being able to trust your neighbors. The post is still there, if you are a member you can search for it.

Over this past week, the last part of that has begun to come to pass, with the arrest of the Al Queda - allied terror cell in Florida.

**************************************

Now, we are faced with all these issues, including the Middle East and the end results' effect on how the world veiws us and the incompetence of our government to secure our borders and inability to function in the face of disaster. Also, the internal issues of rights and liberties of the citizens imbalanced with their responsibilities and duties as such.

The situation in the Middle East is that we have an enemy who we can't fight as effectively and efficiently because they sheild themselves with, are harbored by, and (when they don't have a firearm or bomb) are civilians. The rest of the world dislikes/hates us anyways, and the most vocal nations against us were the ones who had money interests in Iraq. If we pull out before the job is done, we will completely loose face infront of the world for the second time. If that happens, then yes, we will have become a former world power. Now the threat of a nuclear Iran looms. If we do nothing, we prove we are impotent and our words are hollow. If we handle Iran the same way we did Iraq, we are going to fail for a host of reasons. They are an Islamofascist society ruled by a religeous fanatic demogouge. Furthermore, they have mandatory conscription, so every able bodied male is a potential combatant. CQB in an urban environment is costly in lives. So, the only way to make them listen and make them quit is to firebomb their largest population centers in addition to destroying as many military targets as we can from the air in one fell swoop. But we won't do that, as it is "inhumane" - as if them launching a nuke at us is! I wouldn't trade one American life for a million of theirs. Same applies to North Korea. Maybe when the rest of the world sees what we do to nations who don't hold their leaders accountable for their lunacy of malicious actions against us, they will straighten up and have a little respect.

Then, at home, we have a whole nother problem. We have a govenrment so partisan they can't get anything done. Meanwhile we have a pourous border to the north and south, a vast national security violation. National Guard is for keeping the nation safe while our regular military is out at war, and it's about time we started using it as such - but not the bullcrap they are doing sending NG to fill non-LEO roles so more LEOs can be out on the border. We need SOLDIERS at our border to conter the human smugglers and drug and gun runners and gangsters and, if need be, the corrupt Mexican military and poliece that have been crossing in. And we need the same for northern border. Only when the border is secure can we effectively solve the problem of what to do with those already here.

Then, we have all this bull with all 3 branches of government abusing their power and wasting vast ammounts of taxpayer money. The executive branch is being roadblocked and backstabbed by the other two, while they "leak" things to the media - they are less-than transparent on things they should be, and too transparent on things they ought not be. The legislative branch is the biggest waster of money, spending it on frivolous things. On many issues, many lawmakers are not present, as if it's not important to show up for work! If anybody else did that, they'd get FIRED. They make laws concerning things they know nothing about, based on what self-proclaimed experts and their wealthy campaign contributors tell them to do. And sometimes they make laws that affect their own stocks, and on top of it all, they can give themselves a raise. Then the judicial branch, perhaps the most grevious of all offenders. They twist and warp the Constitution until it says what they want it to on all sorts of issues - from personal rights like religeon speech and firearms, to the roles of the government in business and law, to ripping the very foundations of our country out from under us by using technicallities to defy the spirit of the law.

Then we have the American people themselves as a whole. We let each other trample over each other and the whole country in the name of "my rights". Thats all we ever hear about anymore - "my rights, my rights, my rights". But with every right comes responsibility. You have the freedom of speech, but you do not have the right to tell the enemy what we are doing through the news or to spread lies that you know will bring harm to our country and our soldiers. You have the freedom to worship or not as you please, but you do not have the right to tell some else they can't just because it "offends you". If your system of beleif is right, then what another system of beleifs says should not offend you, as they will get theirs in the end. If you do get offended over it, it is a sign that your faith in your own beleifs is weak. And one of the most applicable to this forum, the right to bear arms. You have the right to bear arms for purpose of defending yourself, your property, and your coutry, as well as for sport and hunting. You do not have the right to use a gun to rob, threaten, extort, or murder someone for any reason, as it is the purpose of the legal system to settle disputes.

This is only a small portion of what is going wrong that is weakening us as a nation. You know something is wrong when we can't put serial murderers to death, but it's ok to kill a baby in the womb because under the law it is a "fetus", not a person. There is a reason why every culture that practices baby sacrifice has been destroyed or left on the brink of it.

I would love to see all this turn around, but it's like trying to turn an immense ship with a rudder the size of a dinner plate. Inevitably, it will hit something and founder.
 
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