What are the velocity and yardage of?
- Thread starter ED CHAVEZ
- Start date
Ed,
Get a reloading manual.
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Sensop
"Put the spirit at center and the body will find it." - Shino Takazawa, sinsei, hachi dan, Keishinkan do.
(Get your mind right and the body will follow.)
Sensop's Corner
Get a reloading manual.
------------------
Sensop
"Put the spirit at center and the body will find it." - Shino Takazawa, sinsei, hachi dan, Keishinkan do.
(Get your mind right and the body will follow.)
Sensop's Corner
Harley Nolden
Staff In Memoriam
ED
Hope this will help.
7.62X51 NATO (308 WINCHESTER)
Introduced: 1952
Adopted by Military: 1954
Other Names: T-65
Dimensional Data:
Bullet: .308
Neck: .338
shoulder: .447
Base: .466
Rim: .470
Case Length: 2.01
Ctge Length 2.75
Twist: 10-12
Factory Ballistics:
Bullet: MV: ME: Gun Wgt: Felt Recoil
110gr 3340 2730
130gr 2900 2428
150gr 2860 2730 8lb 14.8
180gr 2610 2720 8lb 17.9 lb
200gr 2450 2670
MAXIMUM CHAMBER PRESSURE: 50,000
Cartridge 7.62 NATO, Test High Pressure
Used to proof test barrels and weapons (Not a Service Charge)
Pressure: 67,500 +- 2,500 psi, avg
Ctge: 412.0-23.5gr
Case: 190-20gr
Bullet; 174.5-3.0gr
Introduced by Winchester as a new sporting cartridge. The .308 is nothing more than the T-65 or the NATO 7.62X51mm military round. The Model 70 bolt-action and 88 Lever action
Winchester were the first American sporting rifles so chambered. It was adopted as the official U.S. military rifle cartridge in 1954, although weapons for it were not ready until 1957. The factories used a special ball-type powder in loading the 308, and it was difficult for the
handloader to equal factory ballistics with the powders then available.
In Power the 308 Winchester is superior to the 300 Savage and almost equal to the 30-06. It delivers about 100 fps less muzzle velocity than the larger 30-06 with any given bullet weight. Most authorities consider the 308 suitable for MOST North American big game, although it's on the light side for moose or big brown bear.
SPRINGFIELD 30-03/30-06
Introduced: 1903
Other Names: Springfield 03
Springfield 30-03
03 Springfield
1903 Ctg: 30-45 (45gr Smokeless)
30-03 Ball Cal. 30 M1
1906 Ctg: Ball Cal. 30 M2
30-06 Sprngfld -06
.30 Govt
Kleanbore
Springfield 06
7.62X63 (Europe)
Changed to 30-06: 1906
Elongated 8mm Mauser Case Necked down.
Elongated 7mm Mauser Case Necked up
30-45 (The 45 stands for the grns of smokless powder used in loading the 1903)
Type: Rimless, Necked, CF
Length: 3.34"
Powder: Nitrocellulose
Primer: Boxer (Lg Rifle)
BULLET:
Type: 1) Hollow point 3380
2) Expanding 2960
3) Expanding 2960
4) Hollow Point 2980
5) Full Jacketed 2800
6) Expanding 2700
7) Hollow Point 2710
8) Soft Point 2710
9) Expanding 2690
10) Hollow Point 2410
11) Full Jacket 2410
12) Soft Point 2410
Diameter: .3086"
CARTRIDGE CASE:
Length: 2.494"
Shoulder: .17"
Neck: .370"
Base to Shoulder: 1.9480"
Case: 2.494"
Overall: 3.340"
Dia:
Rim: .473"
Base: .470"
Neck: .338"
Shoulder: .4410"
Mouth: .3397"
Angle at Neck: 17@030'
PRESSURE LEVEL: 50,000 lbs/sq.in.
Bore Dia:
Min: .300"
Max .3086"
Factory Ballistics:
Bullet: MV: ME: Gun Wgt: Felt Recoil:
55gr (accelerator) 4080 2033
110gr 3370 2770
130gr 3281 3108
150gr 2970 3108
165gr 2800 2872
180gr 2700 2910 8lb 20.0 lb
220gr 2410 2830
NOTE: The 30-06 is a slightly-modified version of the original 1903 cartridge, which was loaded with a 220gr round nosed bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps. A change was made in 1906 changing the bullet to 150gr and the case shortened by .07", with an increased velocity of 2700 fps. The 30-06 can be chambered and fired in any rifle made for the 1903 round, however, the opposite is not always true.
As indicated in the "Other Names" category the initial Springfield round was designated 30-03 Springfield, and with the modification in 1906 the designation changed to Ball cartridge, caliber 30, Model 1906. As with most all military regalia, the name was shortened to 30-06.
Also located in the other names section, the round was called the .30 Government. The original .30 cartridge was designated the 1903 cartridge, the year it originated. The modified round was designated the 1906 ctg., the year it was modified, with the modified name of 30-06. The first two digits, 30, indicating the caliber of the cartridge, the 2nd two digits, 06, indicating the year of modification.
This designation was necessary as they were limited in the firing of both cartridges as one should not be interchanged with the other in the same rifle. The -03 produced very poor accuracy in the -06.
HJN
Hope this will help.
7.62X51 NATO (308 WINCHESTER)
Introduced: 1952
Adopted by Military: 1954
Other Names: T-65
Dimensional Data:
Bullet: .308
Neck: .338
shoulder: .447
Base: .466
Rim: .470
Case Length: 2.01
Ctge Length 2.75
Twist: 10-12
Factory Ballistics:
Bullet: MV: ME: Gun Wgt: Felt Recoil
110gr 3340 2730
130gr 2900 2428
150gr 2860 2730 8lb 14.8
180gr 2610 2720 8lb 17.9 lb
200gr 2450 2670
MAXIMUM CHAMBER PRESSURE: 50,000
Cartridge 7.62 NATO, Test High Pressure
Used to proof test barrels and weapons (Not a Service Charge)
Pressure: 67,500 +- 2,500 psi, avg
Ctge: 412.0-23.5gr
Case: 190-20gr
Bullet; 174.5-3.0gr
Introduced by Winchester as a new sporting cartridge. The .308 is nothing more than the T-65 or the NATO 7.62X51mm military round. The Model 70 bolt-action and 88 Lever action
Winchester were the first American sporting rifles so chambered. It was adopted as the official U.S. military rifle cartridge in 1954, although weapons for it were not ready until 1957. The factories used a special ball-type powder in loading the 308, and it was difficult for the
handloader to equal factory ballistics with the powders then available.
In Power the 308 Winchester is superior to the 300 Savage and almost equal to the 30-06. It delivers about 100 fps less muzzle velocity than the larger 30-06 with any given bullet weight. Most authorities consider the 308 suitable for MOST North American big game, although it's on the light side for moose or big brown bear.
SPRINGFIELD 30-03/30-06
Introduced: 1903
Other Names: Springfield 03
Springfield 30-03
03 Springfield
1903 Ctg: 30-45 (45gr Smokeless)
30-03 Ball Cal. 30 M1
1906 Ctg: Ball Cal. 30 M2
30-06 Sprngfld -06
.30 Govt
Kleanbore
Springfield 06
7.62X63 (Europe)
Changed to 30-06: 1906
Elongated 8mm Mauser Case Necked down.
Elongated 7mm Mauser Case Necked up
30-45 (The 45 stands for the grns of smokless powder used in loading the 1903)
Type: Rimless, Necked, CF
Length: 3.34"
Powder: Nitrocellulose
Primer: Boxer (Lg Rifle)
BULLET:
Type: 1) Hollow point 3380
2) Expanding 2960
3) Expanding 2960
4) Hollow Point 2980
5) Full Jacketed 2800
6) Expanding 2700
7) Hollow Point 2710
8) Soft Point 2710
9) Expanding 2690
10) Hollow Point 2410
11) Full Jacket 2410
12) Soft Point 2410
Diameter: .3086"
CARTRIDGE CASE:
Length: 2.494"
Shoulder: .17"
Neck: .370"
Base to Shoulder: 1.9480"
Case: 2.494"
Overall: 3.340"
Dia:
Rim: .473"
Base: .470"
Neck: .338"
Shoulder: .4410"
Mouth: .3397"
Angle at Neck: 17@030'
PRESSURE LEVEL: 50,000 lbs/sq.in.
Bore Dia:
Min: .300"
Max .3086"
Factory Ballistics:
Bullet: MV: ME: Gun Wgt: Felt Recoil:
55gr (accelerator) 4080 2033
110gr 3370 2770
130gr 3281 3108
150gr 2970 3108
165gr 2800 2872
180gr 2700 2910 8lb 20.0 lb
220gr 2410 2830
NOTE: The 30-06 is a slightly-modified version of the original 1903 cartridge, which was loaded with a 220gr round nosed bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps. A change was made in 1906 changing the bullet to 150gr and the case shortened by .07", with an increased velocity of 2700 fps. The 30-06 can be chambered and fired in any rifle made for the 1903 round, however, the opposite is not always true.
As indicated in the "Other Names" category the initial Springfield round was designated 30-03 Springfield, and with the modification in 1906 the designation changed to Ball cartridge, caliber 30, Model 1906. As with most all military regalia, the name was shortened to 30-06.
Also located in the other names section, the round was called the .30 Government. The original .30 cartridge was designated the 1903 cartridge, the year it originated. The modified round was designated the 1906 ctg., the year it was modified, with the modified name of 30-06. The first two digits, 30, indicating the caliber of the cartridge, the 2nd two digits, 06, indicating the year of modification.
This designation was necessary as they were limited in the firing of both cartridges as one should not be interchanged with the other in the same rifle. The -03 produced very poor accuracy in the -06.
HJN
Harley Nolden
Staff In Memoriam
ED:
I have found that for greater distances the .308 surpassed the 30-06. Now I am not an ammunition expert, I only know what worked for me.
Using a machine rest, sand bags and prone, sling supported, the .308 with a 168grn, Sierra Boat tail was great even at a grand. You'll probably find that the Bolt gun will provide uniform chamber pressures as opposed to the auto guns. This has also been an experience of mine.
Marrying ammunition will enhance the accuracy of any gun. I have found that if I had a Winchester Gun, Winchester ammo did well. But mostly Federal was the best of the factory stuff. Special loads, made by a competent reloader were the best, and after testing the least expensive.
HJN
I have found that for greater distances the .308 surpassed the 30-06. Now I am not an ammunition expert, I only know what worked for me.
Using a machine rest, sand bags and prone, sling supported, the .308 with a 168grn, Sierra Boat tail was great even at a grand. You'll probably find that the Bolt gun will provide uniform chamber pressures as opposed to the auto guns. This has also been an experience of mine.
Marrying ammunition will enhance the accuracy of any gun. I have found that if I had a Winchester Gun, Winchester ammo did well. But mostly Federal was the best of the factory stuff. Special loads, made by a competent reloader were the best, and after testing the least expensive.
HJN
MontaniSemperLiberi
New member
Not sure just what you mean by "yardage," but I shoot the 308 at 1000yds on a regular basis and it works fine with the correct bullet. I use a bolt gun as opposed to the M1A service rifle, but the Sierra 175's or 190's work quite well at that distance. I will say that 1000yds is about all the 308 wants, for it drops off from there quickly and not much you can do about it for you can only stuff so much "go power" in that case.
30-06 probably could go a bit more, but in reality 1000yds is pretty much it for these two rounds. 300WinMag better choice for extreme ranges, but you pay a price for that extra performance in terms of recoil, barrel life, cost to reload, etc., but it does outperform the 308 or 30-06 especially with any wind kicking around. I am sure there are other opinions out there, but the above is what I have found with my experience.
30-06 probably could go a bit more, but in reality 1000yds is pretty much it for these two rounds. 300WinMag better choice for extreme ranges, but you pay a price for that extra performance in terms of recoil, barrel life, cost to reload, etc., but it does outperform the 308 or 30-06 especially with any wind kicking around. I am sure there are other opinions out there, but the above is what I have found with my experience.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
No argument with any of the above, but there is a vast difference between punching paper at known distances and practical maximum ranges when hunting.
Both cartridges have similar trajectories. If you're guessing at the distance from you to a deer, and you're not all that experienced, I'd call either cartridge a 300-yard deal. That is, if you are zeroed at 200 yards, you're 2" high at 100 and 6" low at 300. "Point it and pull" will hit a deer in the body...
It's like anything in the world of guns: What do you plan to do? Casual target? Serious, competitive target shooting? Hunting? If you hunt, do you sit in a stand, mostly, or walk across open country? Do you plan to get into reloading?
For instance: I've been shooting a .30-'06 for 50 years. I've had my 26"-barrel rifle for about 30 years. I reload. I'm mostly a "walking hunter". The package I've put together works better for me than, say, a 20" .308 would. But that's me. Different deal for you, maybe, might mean the .308 would work better for you...
So do some more thinking before jumping onto any rifle. Little stuff like sensitivity to recoil, for instance. You might be happier with a .243--who knows?
Don't be in a hurry...
Regards, Art
Both cartridges have similar trajectories. If you're guessing at the distance from you to a deer, and you're not all that experienced, I'd call either cartridge a 300-yard deal. That is, if you are zeroed at 200 yards, you're 2" high at 100 and 6" low at 300. "Point it and pull" will hit a deer in the body...
It's like anything in the world of guns: What do you plan to do? Casual target? Serious, competitive target shooting? Hunting? If you hunt, do you sit in a stand, mostly, or walk across open country? Do you plan to get into reloading?
For instance: I've been shooting a .30-'06 for 50 years. I've had my 26"-barrel rifle for about 30 years. I reload. I'm mostly a "walking hunter". The package I've put together works better for me than, say, a 20" .308 would. But that's me. Different deal for you, maybe, might mean the .308 would work better for you...
So do some more thinking before jumping onto any rifle. Little stuff like sensitivity to recoil, for instance. You might be happier with a .243--who knows?
Don't be in a hurry...
Regards, Art
Have to agree with Art.
My 30-06 load is a sierra 165 gr game king spitzer boat tail soft point pushed to about 2800 fps. You run about an inch an a half high at 100 yards, zero at 200 and drop 7 inches at 300. 300 yards is about my maximum range for a 1 shot kill (in the field real conditions as in wind, weather, terrain etc) though I've TRIED to shoot farther than that at a wiley Buck Antelope.
Federal Premium 165 grain ammo will do the same.
Remminton commercial 150 grain ammo will do nearly the same but with a velocity nearer to 2900fps and a +1.7/0/-6 inches at the same ranges.
180's will run more like +2 to 2.5/0/-9.5 and travel at around 2700fps.
Bottom line is if you can SEE the deer/elk antelope, put your sights on the kill zone and squeeze the trigger, if you THINK its out near 300, hold HIGH ON THE BODY, not OVER it.
You should STILL put the bullet through the vitals.
Dr.Rob
My 30-06 load is a sierra 165 gr game king spitzer boat tail soft point pushed to about 2800 fps. You run about an inch an a half high at 100 yards, zero at 200 and drop 7 inches at 300. 300 yards is about my maximum range for a 1 shot kill (in the field real conditions as in wind, weather, terrain etc) though I've TRIED to shoot farther than that at a wiley Buck Antelope.
Federal Premium 165 grain ammo will do the same.
Remminton commercial 150 grain ammo will do nearly the same but with a velocity nearer to 2900fps and a +1.7/0/-6 inches at the same ranges.
180's will run more like +2 to 2.5/0/-9.5 and travel at around 2700fps.
Bottom line is if you can SEE the deer/elk antelope, put your sights on the kill zone and squeeze the trigger, if you THINK its out near 300, hold HIGH ON THE BODY, not OVER it.
You should STILL put the bullet through the vitals.
Dr.Rob
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Ed: Okay. Here's my opinionated opinion: I prefer the '06 over the .308. I bought my 26" barrelled gun on purpose, planning on getting the max out of my reloads.
Anyway, factory loads in the '06 are loaded to 47,000 or 48,000 psi, as I recall, because of the older guns. The .308 is loaded to around 52,000 psi. So, handloading the '06 to 52,000 psi lets you outdo the .308...
In a recent comparison test at 400 yards with a 90-degree wind of some 15mph, I held one foot less windage and one foot less elevation with my handloads in my '06 than with my friends 20" .308 with GI ammo.
I prefer the boat-tailed bullets. I have used 150-grain and 165-grain on whitetails to good effect. The 165-grain and 180-grain oughta do just fine on elk, from what elk-hunters with far more experience than I have posted here. Again, skill level and judgement play a large role as to one's success.
At any rate, have fun!
Art
Anyway, factory loads in the '06 are loaded to 47,000 or 48,000 psi, as I recall, because of the older guns. The .308 is loaded to around 52,000 psi. So, handloading the '06 to 52,000 psi lets you outdo the .308...
In a recent comparison test at 400 yards with a 90-degree wind of some 15mph, I held one foot less windage and one foot less elevation with my handloads in my '06 than with my friends 20" .308 with GI ammo.
I prefer the boat-tailed bullets. I have used 150-grain and 165-grain on whitetails to good effect. The 165-grain and 180-grain oughta do just fine on elk, from what elk-hunters with far more experience than I have posted here. Again, skill level and judgement play a large role as to one's success.
At any rate, have fun!
Art