What are the laws on protecting your car from a burglar

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EddieDaGreat

New member
I live in tx in a apartment complex... What if I see someone breaking in my car trying to steal it... Can I shoot him from my apartment window or would that get me in trouble... Does anyone have the legal answer ... has anyone been thru this kind of senario or know of someone
 
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Are you joking?,,,

I don't believe there is a state in the union where you can just shoot someone without first having a fear for your personal safety.

Go down and confront him with a gun,,,
He turns to advance on you,,,
Then you shoot him,,,
That might fly.

But you can't just shoot someone,,,
For messing with your car or trying to steal it.

Aarond
 
Here's the TX penal code for the use of deadly force to protect property:

TX Penal Code said:
9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means (this is going to be the big one); or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
Click to expand...
 
Sounds reasonable... The reason I ask is because there have been lots of cases were burglars get shot inside vehicles and the owners walk free from charges... I didn't know if the laws were slightly different from houses and apartment complex parking lots..
 
The highlighted portion of the law is an important point to keep in mind. Even if the use of deadly force was justified, as soon as the burglar drops the property, there is no more justification for the use of force to protect property.

If the forensice evidence shows that the burglar dropped your car stereo 2' away from the car; but you continued shooting at 3', 4' etc., you may have a much bigger problem than losing a car stereo.

When you start thinking about how fast these situations can play out and how easily you can miss a small detail like that (especially in low light), you start appreciating how easily you can end up in front of a jury yourself when you use deadly force to protect property.
 
In a strictly objective look, the legal fees I incur by shooting someone (I'm not making a statement to the police without my attorney present) will undoubtedly far exceed the difference between my insurance reimbursement and the price of another car, especially if it goes to trial.
 
The two overiding considerations that are common to most states are your belief in eminate danger to your person and inability to flee. Most folks do not seem to understand that today if it's believed you have a way out and do not take it.....you're toast.
 
Posts # 5 and 7 are on point.

If I thought that I had a 98% chance of convincing enough people that a reasonable person would have believed that the property could not have been be protected or recovered by any other means,....

..that would mean that I thought I had a 2% chance of losing everything--fortune, record, personal freedom.

Not a good risk.

That does not take into account the costs, possibly astronomical, of prevailing during the investigatory and if necessary, trial stages.

Not a good strategy.
 
The two overiding considerations that are common to most states are your belief in eminate danger to your person and inability to flee.
Click to expand...
Read the section of the TX Penal Code posted by hoytinak above, specifically 9.42(3)(A). AFAIK eminent danger and inability to flee are actually not considerations under the TX statute.

That said...
The reason I ask is because there have been lots of cases were burglars get shot inside vehicles and the owners walk free from charges...
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"Lots of cases" is a dubious assertion IMHO. Care to provide citations?

I have a vague recollection that there was a gentleman several years ago in the Ft Worth area who shot someone in an attempt to stop a nighttime vehicle burglary in his driveway; IIRC he was eventually acquitted, but only after being charged with manslaughter and going through a lengthy court battle. If my memory serves, the miscreant had not succeeded in actually removing anything from the vehicle, and there was some contention that he was trying to flee or surrender when he was shot (see Bartholomew Roberts' post above).
Even if the use of deadly force was justified, as soon as the burglar drops the property, there is no more justification for the use of force to protect property... When you start thinking about how fast these situations can play out and how easily you can miss a small detail like that (especially in low light), you start appreciating how easily you can end up in front of a jury yourself when you use deadly force to protect property.
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+1.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. ;) This is not official legal advice. Caveat emptor.
 
OldMarksman said:
Posts # 5 and 7 are on point.

If I thought that I had a 98% chance of convincing enough people that a reasonable person would have believed that the property could not have been be protected or recovered by any other means,....

..that would mean that I thought I had a 2% chance of losing everything--fortune, record, personal freedom.

Not a good risk.

That does not take into account the costs, possibly astronomical, of prevailing during the investigatory and if necessary, trial stages.

Not a good strategy.
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A good analysis. And as Don H pointed out, if you have to start paying lawyer fees, in short order you could shell out a lot more the the cost of a top quality car stereo (or even a nice new car).

If you can see the guy breaking into your car from your window, have a good digital camera with a good zoom lens, take some pictures and give copies to your insurance company and the police. That'll help you settle the insurance claim quickly, and may help the cops catch the guy. It might mean that the defense attorney you'd turn to if you used your gun will have to dip into his saving for his next meal, but that should be okay with you; and maybe he can pick up a fee representing the guy the cops caught because you got his photo.
 
In WV(ive heard not proved) that you have to be feared for your life before use of a deadly weapon is advised.

I wouldnt pull a gun on someone here unless they had pulled one first.

I wouldnt trust putting my fate in some judge/jury hands for pulling a gun on someone breaking into my car.
 
You really need to find the lawyer who you'd hire to defend you in court and speak to him/her about it. In advance. Before you open the window.

While we here on the internet are Superheroes and undefeated Trial Lawyers, we won't be there for your arraignment or trial.
 
tim s said:
The two overiding considerations that are common to most states are your belief in eminate danger to your person and inability to flee. Most folks do not seem to understand that today if it's believed you have a way out and do not take it.....you're toast.
Click to expand...
But the member asking the question is in Texas, and Texas is unique in allowing the use of deadly force to prevent property crimes. Read the Texas law that was quoted in post #3. The personal danger criteria to which you allude simply do not apply in Texas.

The first step to obeying the law is understanding the law. It should be (but apparently isn't) obvious that the laws of other states such as West Virginia do not apply in Texas, any more than Texas law applies in West Virginia.

The OP asked for help understanding what the law requires/allows. How to proceed in any particular situation once the law is understood is HIS personal decision. Citing vague references to what we think the law is in other states is really not helpful when someone is asking for specific information.
 
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In WV(ive heard not proved) that you have to be feared for your life before use of a deadly weapon is advised.
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Not the case in TX under this particular statute- see #11 and #3 above. (EDIT: also #16.)
Well can you at least hold him at gun point till the cops show up..
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This question is at least as complex as the initial question, if not more so. I'll try and give you the short version.

First, threatening to use deadly force generally requires the same justifications as the actual use of deadly force. The penalties for improper threats of deadly force are likewise very similar. We are talking about serious jail time.

It is legal in TX for someone to use deadly force (or threaten to use it- see above paragraph) to detain a criminal who is in the process of committing certain serious crimes. That said, improper use of deadly force to detain someone against his or her will is a crime in and of itself- it's called kidnapping. :eek:

Before attempting to detain a suspect, you need to be sure that it is absolutely obvious to any reasonable observer that there is a serious crime in progress. The underlined phrase is crucial; the crime must not only be obvious to you- it must be obvious to any reasonable person observing the situation.

The crucial problem is that most burglaries, vehicle or otherwise, are generally less obvious and clear-cut than other crimes such as robbery, murder, or rape. Only a few seconds of astute observation may separate the innocent from the guilty. Can you be certain that the man standing next to your car with the alarm going off was actually trying to steal the stereo seconds earlier? Would an impartial observer be likely to agree? Could the man have bumped the car by accident? Could he have tried the door handle thinking the car was his sister's, a similar dark-colored 4-door sedan parked a few spaces over? Will he forgive you for screaming obscenities at him and making him lie on the ground at gunpoint until the cops arrive, when all he was trying to do was bring in some groceries?

My opinion? Regardless of what Penal Code 9.42(3)(A) says, I will let the cops handle it. :)
 
EddieDaGreat said:
Well can you at least hold him at gun point till the cops show up..
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Only if he's willing to be held. What's the fall-back plan if he just turns his back and starts walking away? Shoot him in the back? Holster the gun and tackle him?

There's more bad choices to be made going one-on-one with a criminal than there are good choices, when the possible consequences are considered. An auto burglary may likely only be a misdemeanor but a lot of the choices you're making can easily lead to a felony charge against you. Sometimes being a darned good witness beats being a 'hero' all to heck!
 
Whether or not you get away with shooting a car burgler in Texas will depend a lot on which county you are in when it happens. In some counties, the case may be referred to the Grand Jury without charges. By the way, a trip to the Grand Jury is guaranteed, since Texas law requires that all homicides, including police shootings, go to that entity. In Travis County, the DA's office will almost certainly try to find something to charge you with. It is guaranteed by the leftist orientation of that official. In fact, even a self-defense that would be a justifiable shoot in almost anywhere in Texas may well result in charges here. Dallas County is another place where they will try to find something to bring charges over a shoot. Much of the rest of Texas may take the attitude that the burgler brought it on himself.
 
TexasFats said:
Whether or not you get away with shooting a car burgler in Texas will depend a lot on which county you are in when it happens. In some counties, the case may be referred to the Grand Jury without charges. ...Much of the rest of Texas may take the attitude that the burgler brought it on himself.
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Even if things pretty much fall your way, and your lawyer can get things sorted out satisfactorily only a few hours work, a few hours of your lawyer's time will probably cost you between $1,000 and $2,000.
 
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