Western Hunting Question

W

warbirdlover

New member
I'm a good shot IMHO. I can shoot sub-MOA groups at 100 yards all day long and nice groups out to 200 yards (maximum yardage our range goes to). I know I could do well at 300 yards also and "maybe" even farther BUT this is all level shooting.

I watched one of the shows on tv with long range hunting and they had shoots uphill and downhill. They mentioned you had to compensate for that. I think it was Swarovski's show and they were hunting in the Alps in Austria.

Now my question is if there is an animal out 300 yards and the shot is 30º uphill how much do you have to compensate? Same shot downhill 30º.

I would like to know how some of you experienced western, long range shooters deal with that in case I win the lottery and can out west hunting again (one time many years ago). When I did go I got a muley at 220 yards right through the lungs but it was level.
 
"maybe" even farther
Click to expand...

Being a former Southeastern-er and now I'm a western-er, I have yet to do any shooting with angles, but I did want to comment on your above remarks.

When back east, I felt the same way you do. Now that I'm here and have had chances to shoot much farther (up to a 1000m), I can say with some certainty that you would be surprised at well you can shoot long range because I was surprised with myself. The fundamentals are still the fundamentals! Learn your rifle's/bullet's ballistics (as in specific to your exact weapon) and you will be able to make those really long shots too!
 
I'm a western hunter, and the longest shot I've taken is 350. I've actually taken 2 animals about that range. One was a cow elk with a .30-06 and the other was a cow with a .308. Yes there are people who take farther shots elsewhere, but I've found one thing. Focusing on trigger control and holding that rifle steady is more important than the angle of the shot.
 
Gravity works on the horizontal. The "trick" to shooting at elevation angles different than the horizontal is in "estimating" the range.
Take a piece of paper and draw yourself a horizontal line. You are one end of the baseline. Now draw a line at say a 30 degree angle from "you" at any distance you chose. connect the end of that line vertically with the base line. You will notice that the actual range horizontally is shorter than the distance of the angled line to target.
The main problem with shooting at angles is overestimating the actual "horizontal range" which is what your bullet is concerned about.

MJ
 
Click the LINK for a good article on the subject. I was always taught to aim low if shooting up or down a steep hill. Most of the places I hunt 300+ yards will put them on another ridge about level to me anyway so there isn't much compensation for angles.
 
Find a 2nd edition Serria reloading manual...

there is a good section (technical) on angled shooting.

Best I have done has been to yes / no about taking an angle shot, if not comfortable and sure myself, then NO.

A maxim I used is; " shooting low (down), aim high, shooting high, aim low.


When I first shoot a high powered rifle course, it was at Camp Sherman in central Ohiio, the 500 line was elevated and required shooting down to target.

first sighter was done, with ladder sight of 17 Enfield set to 500 mark and POA centered on black, round hit the berm and "sand-showered" the pit crew.
Re-set the ladder sight to 600 and held the same, got a 10.

Good luck.
 
I never really paid much attention to the "up hill - hold XXX, down hill - hold XXX" stuff when hunting. I have seen too many people miss critters (my younger self included) by holding off a game animal. With modern cartridges and their balistics, it is always wise to "HOLD ON HAIR" for every shot out to 400 yards. Past that, you have alot of other stuff to worry about. Good hunting.
 
My 30-06 is sighted for 200 yards.
I shoot 165g bullets.
If I were shooting 300 yards, I would probably be holding high about 4-6 inches to accommodate normal bullet drop. If I were really good at math, I would guesstimate that the difference in the 30 degree angle at 300 was probably worth about 1" lower, but the bullet drop + (MOAx3) of my rifle plus the potential for wind drift would all rank higher on the list of items I would be thinking about.

Now 45 degrees at 300 means I"m looking down a cliff. I would probably not take that shot b/c I wouldn't want to pack an elk out that hole.... lol

Good luck
 
I agree with Wyoredman. Having hunted all over the West for the last 30+ years, you hold on hair until the animal is 400 or so yds away, so don't get all worked up over what they do on TV. I shoot a 7X57, and it kills 'em just fine all the way to 500+ yds as long as I do my part. About the only time I can think of where the angles are a big deal is hunting sheep and goats or hunting in rimrock.
 
Up/Down, same shot because

the horizontal distance is the same in both cases.;)

The horizontal distance is always less than the "rangefinder distance". How much less depends on how steep the incline.

For example, if a deer was at the top of a tall, very "straight up" cliff (say 100 yards high), and you were 50 yards from the bottom of the cliff, your ballistic range would be 50 yards. Your rangefinder would say something like 290 yards.

By the same token, if you were on top of the cliff, and the deer was 50 yards from the bottom of the cliff, your ballistic range would also be 50 yards. Your rangefinder would say something like 290 yards, again.

Up/down, same shot.;)
 
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Any time you are shooting up, or down hill the animal is going to be closer than it seems. Even a range finder will show the animal as being farther away than it really is.

Draw a straight line on a sheet of paper horizontally. Now,somewhere on that horizontal line draw another line at a 90 degree angle straight up. Imagine that you are sitting on top of the verticle line and mark a spot somewhere on the horizontal line. This is the deer you are shooting at. Draw a 3rd line connecting you, and the deer. You should now have a right triangle. If you measure the distance between you and the deer you will get the measurement a range finde would show. But if you measure the distance between the deer and the base of the verticle line you will get a much shorter distance. In reality this is how far the deer is away from you. The larger you draw the triangle the easier it is to see the difference.

It works both ways. If you are down lower shooting uphill the distance is shorter than it appears just as in shooting downhill. The steeper the angle, the bigger difference it makes.

Bowhunters really struggle with this more than rifle hunters. Shooting down at a deer from a tree stand with a bow can be difficult and a lot of arrows fly high over deer because they think the deer is farther than it really is.
 
The cosine of 30º is 0.866. So, at 300 yards, the bullet thinks it's traveling about 260 yards. You'd hit maybe two or three inches higher than if it were a horizontal 300 yards.

At 200 yards? Don't even think about it; just point it and pull.
 
Easier yet than doing math, do what I did and buy a rangefinder that does the math for you. Its amazing what technology can do these days.
 
nathaniel, I'm with you noting like a good rangefinder and my wife bowhunts little and they even make one for bowhunters.
 
Any time you are shooting up, or down hill the animal is going to be closer than it seems. Even a range finder will show the animal as being farther away than it really is.
Click to expand...

In reality this is how far the deer is away from you.
Click to expand...

No, in reality, that is not how far the deer is away from you. In reality that is simply the distance that gravity has an affect on the bullet during flight.

The estimate given by the rangefinder is going to be correct. That is the actual distance the animal is away from you, but for steep angled shots, actual distance away from you isn't the measurement you are looking for to compensate the shots.
 
The horizontal distance is what counts, as I implied in my previous post. Best to draw a picture, comparing the uphill distance with the horizontal distance. But, overall, until you're stretching your skill level for the distance to the animal, it's commonly not critical until you get up toward a 45º angle.

So, draw some pictures, and consider the trajectory of your bullet for the most probable distances that you are likely to shoot.

Out beyond 300 yards, wind is a worse enemy than angle...
 
Shooting at an angle is a learned thing. with enough practice it will become second nature.

All so, not all places out west are like you describe. I live and hunt in Idaho and where I hunt deer at is much like hunting in the south. A long range shot is 150 yards, you typically only see the deer for a second and there are trees every where. I own land next to a national Forrest on one side and farm ground on the other end.

While most hunting in the west is of the long range nature not all hunting out here is that way. long ago I traded in my 30-06 for my first 45/70 because I found I could handle the short barreled 45/70 much faster than the long barreled 30-06... the 30-06 is still in the family though so I do still get to take it out if I go hunting in other areas.
 
Art is correct.

Simply determine the angle to the target. Find the cosine of that angle, multiply that times the distance and that is your TRUE distance, regardless whether its up hill or down hill.

Having said that, I've hunted the west all my life. I've never seen the need to shoot over 300 yards, antelope, deer, elk, ...........what ever.

I sight all my guns for point blank zero, meaning they are they would all hit within 8 inches. Meaning, they would never be over 4 inches high or 4 inches low, from zero to 300 yards.

In this, Art is again correct. It gets drafty, not only in Wyoming, but most of the west. Past 300 the wind is going to get you before trajectory will.

The exception to that, many people over estimate the range to the target. Antelope especially. Antelope are small, and often in grass or sage. People don't see the whole critter so they look farther away. I find more people over shoot antelope then under shoot them.

I set on a ridge last year with several out of state hunters that were estimating the range to a small herd of goats. They estimated anywhere from 350 to 475 yards. I range them with my range finder, 225 yards. After critters moved on, I marked my spot with a GPS, then walked to where the antelope were, measuring the distance. Sure enough the range finder was correct, 225 yards.

GPSs are fine tools, I highly recommend them. Mine is 8X, and I use it instead of binoculars, its lighter also. I like going light.
 
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