went to the gun show...

T

tahunua001

New member
... looking for mosin nagants and an SR22 but instead this guy followed me home
springfield.jpg

1903(I'm guessing A1).
I got it for a very decent price and it is in excellent condition. it's a 5XXXXX serial number that is all springfield parts with the exception of the bolt which is a remington refurb item from WWII. overall I would I would say that I am very happy with the acquisition. it's a very decent rifle though it does hit around 6 inches high with USG surplus at 100 yards and I can't figure out how to adjust for elevation but I am used to holding low for my Enfield No4 MK1 so it's not that bad, hunting accuracy anyway.
 
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Dangerwing wrote this in a similar thread

Dangerwing
Senior Member
Im a big fan of the 1903 series rifle. I all honesty, it's a rip-off of the Mauser K-98. There was even an international copyright battle, but once WWI came around, the world had bigger things to worry about.

The 1903 had two big problems. The sights sucked and the stock was uncomfortable/difficult to hold in a firing position.

First lets talk about the sights. As mentioned above, the 1903 came with a non-shrouded front sight, and a combination leaf/peep sight mounted forward of the action. With the rear leaf sight folded down, there is a peep sight that is permanently set (not adjustable at all) peep sight that is ranged at about 270 yards. The leaf sight was ranged all the way up to 2400 yards!! This was a product of desingers being out of touch with soldier. Hello! You cant even SEE a target at 1600 yards (1 mile) with the naked eye, so why have iron sights marked for twice that? Another problem is that the leaf sight uses a traditional V noch, which is not good for combat or poor visibility conditions. The 1903A1 model fixed these problems by using an adjustable peep sight that is now the standard military rear sight. All future models used this peep sight all the way up to the current M4's in service today. Also, the rear sight was moved back behind the action creating a longer sight radius and better accuracy.

Now lets talk about the stock. The 1903 had a fairly straight stock, similar to a musket. This requires the shooters hand to be tipped farther forward than is comfortable. The awkward possition also affected trigger squeeze - its hard to explain using words, but easy to demonstrate in person. Hold your right hand (left if your left handed) close to your face as if you were shouldering a rifle. Pay attention to the angle of your hand. Its not vertical like a fist but its not straight forward as if you were pointing a stick at the target. It is angled kind of half way in between. The 1903A3 had a stock similar in shape to modern sporting rifles. Its referred to as having a "pistol grip". Thats not meant the way we refer to the pistol grip on an AR-15 style rifle, but instead it means that it has somewhat of a contoured drop that allows the shooter's hand to be in a more comfortable position.

The A4 model was purely a sniper model. Its nothing more than an A3 with the front sight removed and a scope mounted.

There have been other changes to the rifle throughout production, but they weren't major enough to create a whole new model number (for example the angle of the bolt handle)

Summary:
1903 - leaf sight and straight stock
1903A1 - peep sight and straight stock
1903A3 - peep sight and contoured (pistol grip) stock

I hope that answered your question.
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well I guess that makes mine just a plain ole 1903. the sights dont bug me that much and I actually like flip up tower sight but I just wish I could adjust elevation.

as for the stock, I don't mind it at all. I much prefer it to an AK or mosin nagant and I kindof like the weight because it absorbs recoil pretty well. overall I've shot much worse and for the price I paid, sure, I've owned better. I may also try some lower velocity rounds and see if it drops a little closer to point of aim.
 
Tahaunua,

Nice 1903. Most were rebuilt at one time or another (explains the Remington bolt)) and there is probably a rebuild stamp on the left side of the recivier below the bolt stop/magazine cut off. If it's there, let us know the letters in the stamp and we should be able to give you a little history on the rifle. Many rifles bear several rebuild marks or cartouches. What date is on the barrel?

You can adjust for elevation and windage with the 1903 sight. Flip the ladder up and on the right side of the ladder is a thumb screw that you loosen to raise or lower the sight. You have your choice of a peep or two notch sights when used this way.The battle sight (available with the ladder is down) is set for grazing fire and that is why it hits so high at 100 yards. Windage marks are in leads, roughly 1 mil per lead or about 3.5 MOA.

The 1903A1 has a full pistol grip stock and was adopted in 1932 as I recal. No 1903 receivers were marked 1903A1, but any 1903 with a full pistol grip stock is considered a 1903A1.

Only the 1903A3 has the peep sight mounted on the receiver ring and also introduced the stamped steel bands, trigger guard and quite often what is called the Scant stock of semi-pistol grip configuration.

You have a fairly valuable rifle if it is all original and not refinished.
 
Tahunua - Don't you hate it sometimes those old girls have that habit of following you after every time at a gun show? Just kidding :D That said though, it's very nice piece of history you have there. The stock, I agree, is a very personal kind of preference, since I'm more comfortable with the full pistol grip type, wheras I know some others here have a liking for the straight stock. Each to their own, I reckon. :)
 
Scharfschuetzer,
I don't see any stamps or proofs on the left side of the reciever, would they be below the stock or in plain view?
the barrel proofs are
"SA" above a bomb superimposed over a backwards "C" above "1- 19" above an "A"

across the top of the reciever is
U.S.
Springfield
Armory
Model 1903
502XXX

no other proofs that I can see

also, I flipped up the tower but I don't see any screws to loosen or tighten, do you have pics?

Bluey, I do kind of hate it, I had intended to spend $450 on three guns and left with one for almost double that after taxes. well, at least I have a life time supply of 30-06 ammo for it.
 
tahunua001

I love the model 1903 and that is a great looking one that you drug home.

Now, since no one has mentioned it, you should probably read up on high number vs. low number receivers. You're rifle, as lovely as it is, is considered a low number receiver and a lot of folks feel that they are not safe to shoot due to problems with heat treatment. I certainly don't know enough on the subject to give details, but I do know it is something that should be considered.
 
S/Ns 800,000 and up are considered safe to shoot . Most people that are going to shoot the 1903s look for higher serial numbered guns or A3s ! Unfortunatly there's no way to tell if a low S/N gun is safe to shoot , you find out they are unsafe when they come apart . I would not have bought that rifle , if I wanted a shooter , I prefer the A3s myself as I'm not a collector of them .
 
interesting, I would have never thought it wasn't safe to shoot. well so far I have about 50 rounds of some of the nastiest WWII surplus you could imagine through it so if it was going to come apart it probably would have already.
 
*sighs* Well, from what I've read so far, it is fairly inconclusive, one can only make up their mind. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert either, just a humble boilermaker. There's been excellent reading material about certain '03 early receivers blowing up. It was blamed on the improper method of forging or/and heat treatment of the time.

One has to remember too, that it was mentioned in the WWI era, not all but some US made ammunition of that time was "suspect", having varying amounts of tolerances and it was commented that it was a contributing factor.

I remember along down the lines that Springfield Armory, after WWI, scurried to try fix the problem by using double heat treatment on the remaining "suspected" receivers but to no end, so they scrapped them or some of them ended up as surplus, thinking they'll never be used again. Until WWII came around and those receivers were pushed into service.

When I did some reading about the Kokoda campaign where my dad's grand-father was about to be involved, the book made a brief account about Guadacanal, where the US Marines fought hard against the Japanese. It mentioned the use of their small-arms, one being the Springfield '03. It went on to make light that some of these '03s were refurbished with the early numbered receivers! :eek: That said, however, there was no reports of '03s giving up the ghost in that campaign.

Again, make up your own mind on this one. Tahunua has made the comment his '03 hasn't come apart and that makes sense about the US Marines' experience with their '03s on Guadacanal. I agree that there isn't any real safe way to make sure the early numbered '03s are safe, stopping short of putting up barricades around the old girl, slipping a round up the sprout, using a piece of rope to pull the trigger and retreat to a safe distance. :D

Well, Tahunua, you have my sympathies, mate, I have another rifle from my local gunshop, that followed me home the other day! :D It's an old small-framed Martini Cadet converted to .22 Hornet by Sportco and so it happens, I've been becoming a fan of the .22 Hornet round after shooting the SMLE .22 Hornet conversion done by Slazenger for some time.
 
I'm sure the fellow you bought it from was hoping you would show up and take it off his hands too . I'll leave those low serial numbered guns for the collectors ! Impulse buying can be a bad thing sometimes , especially with surplus arms . With just a little research done on 03s , you would probably have passed on it . I was just trying to help a fellow shooter remain healthy , for sure , not maybe !
 
well he had dropped the price about 300 dollars so I guess that should have been a red flag right there but it looked like it was in the best condition of the 3 1903s at the gunshow and had the most reasonable price. I guess I'll just have to be careful and not use any hot reloads in it.
 
Looks like your rifle's receiver was made sometime between 1911 or 1912. I've read (I believe in Brophy's Book of the Springfield) that the suspect receivers came about due to a rush to increase production for World War One when we prepared for the war in the 1916 or 1917 time frame. Take that with a grain of salt, as the single heat treatment of the early receivers depended largly on the worker's skill in reading the color of the receiver as it was heated.

I have a 1918 SA 1903 single heat treated rifle with its original barrel and bolt and shoot cast bullets through it. It still groups them pretty well at about 1800 to 1900 FPS and at the low pressures of the cast bullet loads it ought to last forever shooting them. If your are suspicious of your rifle's strengh, you might consider reloads at reduced pressures to keep your rifle shooting.

Your stock looks like it has the two reinforcing bolts through the stock for and aft of the magazine. This would indicate a later production stock. The first 03s didn't have any reinforcement and then a single bolt was added before the final two bolt reinforcement like your stock.
 
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I don't know about the end of WWII. My speculation is that the rifle was declared obsolete by that time and that they were declared surplus and sold without any further expense to the government.

On the other hand, during the rifle's useful service life, a replacement stock would be part of the rebuild process if the rifle's current stock was determined to be unservicable during the initial inspection of the rifle. As so few early model Springfields have the original non reinforced stock or one bolt reinforcement stock, my guess is that as the stocks were upgraded to a stronger standard, they would automatically become part of the rebuild process even if the orginal stock was still servicable.
 
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