Well, they let him keep his guns . . .

Oatka

New member
. . . take that with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

I thought the headline below was a little hyperbolic -- until I read the story. These people are totally out of control now.
http://208.46.148.11/cyberskip.htm

OUTRAGE!!!!

RAMSEY ELECTRONICS RAIDED BY US CUSTOMS STORM TROOPERS

It only took 25 years but finally the feds caught on. Ramsey Electronics, previously thought to be a company that sold educational electronic kits to hobbyists, school children, and amateur radio experimenters, was stormed by seven armed US Customs agents armed with a warrant accusing them of selling devices that MIGHT be in violation of US Code Title 18, Section 2512.

For the laymen, that means that the stuff they sold to thousands of boy scouts, schools and hobbyists all these years was determined by them to be "primarily designed for surreptitious use", presumably by international espionage organizations and terrorist groups.

Especially of interest to the brown shirts were the FM-1 wireless microphone kits that are priced at $5.95. One might assume these sophisticated "high-tech" wireless bugs are the type that would interest the likes of Osama bin Laden, the multi-millionaire terrorist who currently resides in Afghanistan. Also the Canadian/United States border crossing (one of the heaviest traveled in US) is only 7 miles from Buffalo and 75 miles from Victor NY, the home of Ramsey Electronics. Several suspected terrorists have been nabbed at various border crossings recently so one could assume that the terrorists that are spilling over the border are probably making a beeline to Ramsey Electronics to stock up on the latest in spy devices - at a price even the most cash-strapped terrorist could afford. Rumors have it that bin Laden is a little slow paying up on the expense accounts.

All humor aside, this is a serious matter in which John Ramsey and his company could face serious Federal charges and prison time.

Most surely, the prospect of bankruptcy looms in his mind since he faces outrageous legal bills to defend his good name in the face of the Justice Department and its unlimited resources.

The raid commenced on November 10, 1999 at 10:00 AM when 7 armed US Customs agents in three vehicles accompanied by 3 New York State Troopers arrived at the Ramsey business. It's curious that they thought they needed a small army to storm the Ramsey business that resides quite openly and freely accessible in an office park. Everyone and anyone visits the storefront daily; from young children to adults. As John Ramsey says, "it's not like we're in a dingy basement in the inner city surrounded by hit-men and drug labs."

Ramsey told CyberSKIP that two of the agents were recognized by a technician as having visited the showroom the previous week ostensibly as customers. They had asked him if some of the devices could be used to bug offices. They tried to persuade the tech to assure them that some of the products could specifically be used for bugging offices and asked if he could tell them how to, "increase the power to go farther." The technician correctly told them that all of the products were for hobbyists. He told them, "If you want something like that, you're in the wrong place." Although the writer is not an authority in the fine points of law, this smacks of entrapment.
After casing the business, the two agents returned to Buffalo, a 75 mile, 1-1/2 hour trip, apparently armed with sufficient evidence with which to obtain a warrant for the raid.

A week later the raid was executed. Somewhat out of character, the agents stormed the building but without the normally requisite ski masks, blazing weapons and flash bang grenades. They ordered Ramsey to his office and ordered him to "stay there and don't move." The agents said, "If you don't cooperate, we can tie you up forever".
He was ordered sit down then they told him that if he didn't cooperate, "we'll shut down your business, send everyone home and we'll bring in computer experts to dissect your computers bit by bit and we don't care if it takes months."

It was then that the agents revealed what they came for; the wireless mikes. Ramsey said, "Why didn't you just call me and tell me to stop selling the products in question? We would have stopped selling them immediately if you simply would have asked. That sure would have saved all of us a lot of time, effort and taxpayers money - we'd even pay for the call on the 800 number!"

Obviously the agents were in no mood for reasoned dialog. They spread out, searching and seizing all the "surreptitious" devices they could find. In the meantime, another agent was busy with an extensive photo shoot of the premises. After carefully taping a numbered piece of paper to each door he would photograph it, then photograph everything in the room and finally write an extensive report on his photo journey through the premises. By the time he was finished, he had taken five rolls of film.
Five hours after the siege began, a van backed up to the loading dock. They started loading products into the van. Ramsey said, "They wouldn't let me see what they were taking, verify counts or even observe what was in the boxes."

"You can trust us," one said.

When they were finished loading the van, they handed Ramsey a handwritten inventory sheet with no names or signatures on it. The first two items on the list caught his eye. One was a part number that was completely wrong and not a Ramsey number and the second item was an RFS-1 RF switch kit. Ramsey questioned the rationale for confiscating these items and persuaded them to retrieve the items from the van. The first item was a smoke alarm and as for the RF Switch, the crack customs agents said, "OH...ahhh, we probably picked up the wrong box off the shelf - it should have been the PB-1 phone bug kit." In case our readers aren't familiar with the PB-1, it's a $15 kit that transmits in the middle of the FM broadcast band, limited power, and hardly the choice of criminals, terrorists and espionage agents. One would doubt that it is high on the list of the CIA's "must buy" list either.

At one point, John Ramsey was asked whether he had any weapons on the premises. Probably much to the horror of the customs agents, he did. Mr. Ramsey had several recently purchased collector rifles that had never been fired. They were in sealed boxes in his office. This was a matter of much concern to the agents and they pondered whether the rifles must be removed from the office and placed temporarily in a vehicle outside the building.

Perhaps the agents feared a counter-assault from this respected businessman with a 25-year track record.

Although it is not clear why the agents didn't want to confiscate Ramsey's "arsenal" along with all the alleged spy equipment, they finally decided not to pursue the matter. If the PB-1 FM transmitter poses a threat to American security, surely the rifles could be connected to some international arms smuggling conspiracy.
When the longest day was finished and the agents disappeared into the sunset with their booty, Ramsey figures they confiscated over $30,000 of his property. The Customs Agents turned over their findings to the US Attorney in Buffalo.

It's ironic that Ramsey Electronics worked closely with the FBI labs in Washington DC in tracking down a spy/terrorist who was working at a missile plant in New England and assisted in apprehending an IRA terrorist. Just a few months ago, the company was working with an FBI agent who was on the trail of an Iranian terrorist. John Ramsey is proud of the technical assistance and public service he has unselfishly provided his community and his country. He is very proud of the Certificate of Appreciation hanging on his wall, awarded to him by the Ontario County Sheriff.

Currently John Ramsey has a patent application that is under a US military Secrecy Order that will be of inestimable value to the US military. The invention was tested at Nellis Air Force Base and in the words of one Air Force official, "It will save the hide of many a night-flying pilot."
Ramsey Electronics has been heralded by the county as one of the "High-Tech", clean companies that our citizens should be proud to have in our back yard.

It is beyond the writer's comprehension how Ramsey Electronics, who has contributed so much to the enlightenment and education of youngsters and adults alike, through his inexpensive and simple electronic kits, could incur the wrath of the US Justice Department and their goon squad. Thank God John Ramsey was not brought down in a hail of bullets like some others under suspicion.
The big question is whether Radio Shack will be the next target. Those baby monitors can monitor more than babies, Jack. Unlike some devices, Radio Shack isn't obligated to issue a warning before they sell them. They also sell little black boxes that facilitate recording telephone calls. Ask Linda Tripp about them. If I'm not mistaken, Radio Shack sells bugs, er...I mean, miniature microphones and FM transmitters just like the ones confiscated at Ramsey. One wonders how the function of these units differ from the dreaded Ramsey FM-1. Could it be that the feds are reluctant to raid the multitude of Radio Shack warehouses knowing that they might have a few bucks to defend themselves? Besides, it might require more vans than the entire US Customs has at its disposal.

If we are to believe that our border crossings leak like a sieve and US Customs is woefully understaffed, one might question the logic of dispatching 7 armed agents, 75-miles to Victor NY, for the better part of one day to conduct a raid on an legitimate business operation.

Couldn't those same agents serve a more useful function searching vehicles crossing the border with caches of nitroglycerine and other bomb making material? After all, the border is only 7 minutes from the US Customs office that planned the raid. Perhaps ordinary folk don't understand how the dangers of nitroglycerine and Ramsey FM-1 transmitters equate.

Probably in excess of 80% of CyberSKIP Digest readers have been touched in one way or another by Ramsey Electronics. A simple kit from Ramsey probably launched many of the readers into the amateur radio hobby.

Unless I'm sadly mistaken and I have made a terrible misjudgment of John Ramsey in the years that I have been acquainted with him and his company, this whole affair is an outrage of the most magnificent proportions.

It is also ironic that CyberSKIP is issuing a stern warning this month that it is more important than ever to guard one's privacy on the Internet. The government goons can and will interpret laws as they see fit and tailor charges accordingly. Just as John Ramsey was threatened with the dissection of his computer, so could anyone experience the dissection of theirs. If an individual visits sites the government deems suspect, one might be branded a terrorist, pedophile, militia nut or even (gasp) a hopeless sex addict. Keep that in mind as you browse the Internet.

Guilt by association looms large in the mindset of the society we live in these days. In the case of Ramsey Electronics, it appears they are the latest victim of trumped up charges based on some almost ludicrous interpretation of vague laws by an overzealous US Justice Department.



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The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
I for one am starting to be concerned that the current "war" on terrorism is a ruse to get Americans to give up more freedom for the appearance of security. There were 4 more arrests in New York today. Arrest warrants "sealed". Since when do we have a secret police and arrest people on sealed warrants? Even when a Grand Jury issues "sealed" indictments, the charges are revealed when arrests are made.

Obviously the powers we have given the government to protect us from terrorism are certainly much too broad.

Are the "terrorists" recently arrested the modern equivilent of dead concentration camp inmates in Polish uniforms at the radio station on the German side of the border?

In the past 45 days we have seen people arrested for being in possesion of otherwise legal items (electronics parts, fertilizer, firearms and reloading equipment) all in conjunction with anti-government literature.

I thought we settled the anti-government literature arguement back in the 50s and 60s when the courts ruled that allowing people to possess Communist literature was the price we pay for living in a free society. Isn't anti government literature the kind of free speech the founding fathers intended to protect?

So will the Reichstag burn on New Years? Is this all a percurser for a big push for British style state security laws before the Clintons leave office. Just as Waco was timed to coincide with budget hearings for the BATF, is the current spate of terrorist arrests being timed to coincide with a legislative package that's already to be dropped in the hopper when Congress reconvenes after the new year?

Just some random thoughts.

Jeff
Who has firearms and anti government literature (The Federalist Papers, The Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution)

[This message has been edited by Jeff White (edited December 30, 1999).]
 
ZIG HIELD TO THAT!

If I wanted to live in the Third Riech
I'd move to East Germany. I never expected the Nazi's to move HERE INSTEAD, when my back was turned!

But, that is just what their
ideoligy did; and now,

the NAZI ideology
has taken over most of our government,
with the eager help of socialist, elitest
democraps.


------------------
Every year,over 2 million Americans use firearms
to preserve life,limb & family.Gun Control Democrats
would prefer that they all die,instead.
ernest2, Conn. CAN opp. "Do What You Can"! http://thematrix.acmecity.com/digital/237/cansite/can.html


[This message has been edited by ernest2 (edited December 30, 1999).]
 
During and shortly after WWII we got a bunch of German scientists.

Wonder what happened to all the out of work Stasi after the Berlin Wall fell? Makes ya wonder.

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Otka:

Is the Justice Dept. mentioned in the last paragraph of your thread on Ramsey Electronics, the same Justice Dept that fails to prosecute all the "felons" caught by NICS and or Brady background checks, attempting in violation of the law, to purchase through licensed dealers, the firearms they are prohibited, by law, from buying??

Just curious.
 
War on Drugs + War on Terrorism equate War on the Constitutional Rights of American citizens. While the War on Drugs does not curb the flow of illegal drugs very much it is a useful tool for the suppression of our rights. We are now seeing what can be done with the war on terrorism.
I wonder what has happened to Mr. Ramsey in the meantime?
Hank

Ramsey has a very nice web site. This is the page listing the Federal Restrictions
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/scstore/Hframeset.htm?E+scstore

[This message has been edited by HankL (edited December 30, 1999).]
 
Hell! Look at what is in charge over at Justice. Are any of you really surprised by this piece of inspired lunacy. Register to vote and raise hell! Maybe Reno will get her priorities straight and prosecute those stealing nuclear secrets. Call your congressman and ask that the budget at Justice be cut! There can't be much going on if this is how they are spending thier time!
 
A few years back, the Feds raided Wag-Aero, a seller of aircraft parts for the puddle-jumper crowd. Same sort of behavior.

It took numerous months of legal work, thrashing and hassling before the situation got squared away. While the Feds continually made mouth-music about the alleged evils of Wag Aero, no charges were ever filed. I believe the seized property was finally returned, but very grudgingly. No evidence of wrong-doing was ever found, but no apologies were ever offered--much less any courtesy and politeness.

Just your tax-dollars at work, protecting you. Yeah, right.

Art
 
"You can trust us!" has to be four of the scariest words in the English language...

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ff ...save the 2nd. No fate but what we make.
 
If this is true, and if Mr. Ramsey doesn't receive a full apology and damages, then ... I suppose the march to fascism is in full stride.

The War on Drugs. The War on Guns. The War on Terrorism. When will people begin to notice that it is really the War on Americans and the War on the Constitution?
 
I wonder if the major cities and HUD will sue the people who make these types of kits? After all, they were negligent in not stating that the kits could be used for bad things...
and they were advertised as being "telephone bugging devices", just like they are going after the gun manufacturers for their advertisements....
 
Just as bad as the big bad FBI guy busting the guy with the Indian Headress. He's my hard working government hero. Probably wouldn't know a real crime if they feel into it. Where does this crap stop.

------------------
Help Stamp Out Gun Ignorance.
 
With all the budget cuts, they were just stocking up for the new year. Kind of reminds you when large volumes of cash are siezed from legit businessmen, or houses confiscated and sold at auction because the tenents were using or distributing dope with out the landlords knowledge, or cars ....well you get the idea. What is it the Constitution says about unreasonable search and siezure, or depriving one of ones property without due process? Yeah, we all applauded it when it happened to the druggies, but now the shoe is on the other foot. Not so funny now that the Genie is out of the bottle.
 
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