Well-rod pistol

J

johnwilliamson062

Moderator
I have been thinking about a well-rod pistol for sometime and b/c it seems the reproductions tend to have feed issues and be really expensive, I was wondering what people thought about modifying exhisting semi-auto pistols to manual operation. DE uses a piston, right? What about removing the piston, soldering the gas hole and manually operating the slide? What about non-permanent options?
Obviously the suppressor would not be integral, but that isn't really the main point, is it? The 380 DE would still be pretty small with a suppressor.
 
I suppose you mean this integrally suppressed pistol from WWII as shown here: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg217-e.htm ? If so, goodluck finding one! I am sure that the suppressor would be deteriorated if they used any type of packing in it. If it's just baffles then you're ok-sort of. The suppresor could still be well worn or it may be still in an unused condition.
 
The famed Vietnam SEAL "Hush puppy" S&W auto used a special slide lock that also could be used to lock the slide shut for use with the silencer.

For most automatics, you'd have to come up with some way of locking the slide. A simple method would be something like the S&W lock, only used only as a lock that fits into a cut in the slide to keep it closed.
As example, you could build a new slide lock for a 1911 pistol that serves only as a lock. The lock would have nothing inside the frame to interact with the slide stop and would have a larger lug on the top.
The slide would have a corresponding large notch for the stop to lock into.
It could be fired as an automatic until the slide stop/lock is pressed up and that would convert it to a locked slide repeating pistol.

The WWII British Commando Wel-Rod was a single shot pistol, not a auto or even a repeater.
 
I believe those "locked slides" considerably shortened the guns life. Not a big issue for a military special purpose gun, but not the greatest for something used as a toy.
 
You have to spell it right. Here is good info on the gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welrod

Actually, it was a POS, and I have to wonder how much it was ever used. At that time the British were coming up with all kinds of magic gadgets, most of which were useless at best and at worst took resources that would have been better spent on more conventional weapons. The OSS, populated to a good extent by overeducated romantics, came up with their own useless gadgetry, like the Liberator pistol and the pistol built into a glove. The Germans were not far behind with their complex and expensive "belt buckle" pistol.

I don't know how the BATFE would consider the Welrod under the U.S. law, but I guess it would be considered as a suppressor with a gun attached. Rigging a conventional pistol to stop slide recoil would be a lot simpler and not that hard (you can block the bolt of a Ruger standard model .22 with your palm). You could also cut down a manually operated rifle.

Jim
 
What is it with the Brits and making guns out of old plumbing?
Fancy clothes. Fancy buildings. Fancy cars. Ugly guns. I don't get it.
 
The S&W Model 39 "Hush Puppies" were pretty solid if they were kept clean. The supresson kits lasted only about 22 rounds in practice. I cannot fathom the attraction of supressors for citizen use. They have no practical use. Weapons using an effecive supression are single shot and highly specialized in function. They are not good self defense options.
 
The attractions of silencers for civilian use include the following:

1 Shooting in places where it is safe to shoot, but the noise would cause complaints.

2. Shooting without hearing protiction.

3. Shooting without spooking game over a large area.

4. Introducing new shooters to guns without fear of noise and reduced recoil.

No gun is totally silent. That is why suppressor may be a more accurate term.
My suppressed .22's are inaudible 50 yards away. Manually operated guns are the quietest, but the sound of a semi auto action working is hardly comparable to the muzzle blast of a unsuppressed weapon.

gary
 
I cannot fathom the attraction of supressors for citizen use. They have no practical use. Weapons using an effecive supression are single shot and highly specialized in function. They are not good self defense options.
Click to expand...

Not everyone buys pistols for self defense.

Not everyone finds highly specialized pistols useless. -Some people find them to be exactly what they needed.

There are many real, practical reasons for suppressors. garyhan listed a few, and that should be enough for now. There is more going on in this world, that what your narrow view sees in a day.
 
Hmmm. The "we who are in on secret plots know things..." contingent has been heard from.

I agree that there are times when a suppressor would be nice; I could shoot in my back yard without bothering the neighbors. But then that is just my "narrow view", since I don't go in for picking off either Jihadists or infidels.

Jim
 
I frequently handled a pristine .32 ACP version about two years ago in Iraq. An interesting little weapon (for its size) in that caliber. We were unable to fire it despite several months of trying (unsuccessfully) to locate .32 fodder. God knows how it wound up in Iraqi hands, but sooner or later you run across examples of just about everything in Iraqi arms rooms.

I fired a .45 ACP version back in 1983. One example of this weapon was still on the property book for a particular unit at that time. Mostly regarded as a range toy and novelty. It was a good deal larger than the 9mm & .32 versions.

Popular wisdom has the Welrod never fielded in .45 ACP...but the unmarked model I fired was most certainly in that caliber.

It was an extremely quiet suppressed weapon. At that time, I was more used to open bolt suppressed SMGs (Uzi, MP5-SD, M3A1, MAC-10/11, Walther MPK, etc.). The Welrod was significantly more quiet with the only noticeable noise being the smack of rounds into targets and backstop.

Despite being used to several different types of supressed weapons, I truly thought my first shot from the Welrod was a misfire and ejected that "dud" round to get another ready to fire. I then noticed a slightly smoking and expended .45 ACP brass case at my feet. Spooky quiet.

As previously mentioned, a very specialized weapon for point blank dispatch of people or animals (and providing little ability to quickly deliver a followup shot). One for the history books, but not especially practical.

I wasn't aware of anyone making a modern reproduction?
 
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I have no intention of purchasing an original.

I am fairly positive there have been a number of modern variants constructed in small batches not for retail sale(individuals making them for themselves). I am aware of the issues involved with the suppressor and those are not a concern to me as i reside in a state where integrally suppressed firearms are legal with the extra paperwork and tax. Someone posted about a modified one here or somewhere else that had 4+1 capacity as a manually operated repeater. Maybe I have more mixed up than the spelling though.

The slide lock does seem like it might cause a lot of wear on the gun, although, I can't come up with exactly what would wear beyond the lock mechanism and slot in the slide.
 
Hmmm. The "we who are in on secret plots know things..." contingent has been heard from.

I agree that there are times when a suppressor would be nice; I could shoot in my back yard without bothering the neighbors. But then that is just my "narrow view", since I don't go in for picking off either Jihadists or infidels.
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard of noise ordinances?
Livestock that spook at the sound of gun fire? (particularly bad for certain dairy animals)
Pest control?
Environments in which hearing protection cannot be used, for safety reasons?

I'll return to my secret plots, and the things I know, that you don't, that some people might, but they won't tell.... 'cause, you know, the infidels might spread the word to the Jihadists. Grow up.
 
Hmm, a friend as an integrally suppressed HK 416 -- dealer sample. I haven't fired it, yet, but from what he tells me all you here is the metal on metal of the bolt and the crack of the bullets; definitely not single use.
 
I cannot fathom the attraction of supressors for citizen use. They have no practical use. Weapons using an effecive supression are single shot and highly specialized in function.
Click to expand...

Any evidence to support these claims?

Silencers on any machine are practical. Or do you drive around without a muffler on your car? Want everyone else to do so also? I do not know what your idea of effective suppression is, but the silencers I make for my high powered rifles are very effective. Silencers can work well on ALL firearms. Since the only thing they are expected to do is tame muzzle blast noise, it is something they do very well in all cases as long as they are a decent design. Even if the firearm is still noisy due to action noise, bullet flight noise or blast from a cylinder/barrel gap, the silencer is doing it's sole job, which is to reduce muzzle blast noise.

Here is my suppressed 338 ultra mag. It is not single shot, highly specialized or impractical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lnBE9H_d8I

Why not hold your comments until you have researched a bit and can "fathom" it?

Ranb
 
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