FirstFreedom
Moderator
OK, about 11:30 - midnight time frame, 3 of my dogs go crazy in the backyard barking. The back fence of my backyard is adjacent to a parking lot of a commercial building. After a couple of minutes of this barking, I realize that it's more intense barking than usual, and so I grab a flashlight and a pistol, place the pistol into my right front pocket of my shorts, and walk outside, and sit down in a chaise lounge chair right near the back door, up against the house, and watch. My dogs quit barking and come up to me looking for attention. Through the slots in the cedar fence, I can see that there is a security guard car with its headlights on, facing toward my fence, not 5 yards from the back of the fence. This is security for the commercial building. Then, a male voice says something, and the car screeches off at a high speed. Then, a couple of seconds later, a flashlight appears from the left rear corner of my yard, where the rear back privacy fence meets the neighbor's rear back chainlink fence, and our shared side chainlink fence in the middle. So this is some 13-15 yards away from me. Flashlight points and me and loud voice says "Let me see you hands!!" I assume of course that it is security or LEO, and turn my flashlight on, but don't point it at the person, and show my hands, while holding flashlight in my right hand with just thumb and forefinger, so remaining fingers are showing "nothing else" in my hands, other than the flashlight, to this person. Well he quickly realizes that I am not the suspect he is looking for, of course - not dressed anything alike, etc. And I walk to him and quickly learn from him that he had just been in a scuffle/fight with a 'vagrant', right behind my back fence, who had started running when asked by the security guard what he was doing there; and the guy had apparently gone over the fence to my next door neighbor's backyard; his shoe was still on the ground there. Anyway, didn't find him, and no harm done, but this raises a couple of important issues.
The first issue, which is pretty common I'm sure, is that this security guard failed to identify himself as security or LEO to me - all he said was "lemme see your hands!". And he should have IMO. But he thought initially that I was the suspect he was looking for. And further, since I had seen the security guard car, I knew that he was likely security or leo with that combined with his authoritative order. But he should have realized that a homeowner might come out to investigate dogs wildly barking. But in any event, I can't keep some screwhead from shooting me when he ought not to - that's mostly out of my control. Plus, and this brings up the issue below, what's to keep a BG from lying and "identifying" himself as security or LEO?
So, the major issue that has me wondering is "How do I know it's not a crook/home invader whose MO is to emulate LEOs by barking such LEO-type orders?", such as "lemme see your hands", in an authoritative way, in order to get compliance from a victim? Hell, all I saw was a flashlight - no uniform or anything. I'm sure that it's pretty RARE that a bad guy will use leo-emulating orders, but my question is, I suppose, is does anyone know of any documented case where a crook has used such a ruse to effect compliance/disarmament of their victim? For a moment I considered saying "lemme see YOUR hands, muthahumpa, and who the heck are you!?", while drawing my pistol.
But as it was, I never even pulled my pistol out, and the security guard never saw it, I'm quite sure - nor did I see any reason to mention it, once we got to talking about the suspect he was looking for. Anyhow, this numbskull probably would have shot me had he seen me with a pistol and asked questions later, being the cowboy type that that building always employs. But *that question* of numnut security agencies (and their liability for screwups for triggernappiness) aside for the moment, what about this idea of crooks purpsosefully using leo commands.... "stop; police", etc., to gain control - ever happen?
I have heard of documented cases where complete LEO impersonation occurs on out on the highway, in a fake car, with fake uniform, fake badge, in order to abduct women and such. But any documented cases at HOMES of burglarly/home invasion scenarios?
Well, probably never should have stepped outside to begin with? But I was worried about my dogs...
The first issue, which is pretty common I'm sure, is that this security guard failed to identify himself as security or LEO to me - all he said was "lemme see your hands!". And he should have IMO. But he thought initially that I was the suspect he was looking for. And further, since I had seen the security guard car, I knew that he was likely security or leo with that combined with his authoritative order. But he should have realized that a homeowner might come out to investigate dogs wildly barking. But in any event, I can't keep some screwhead from shooting me when he ought not to - that's mostly out of my control. Plus, and this brings up the issue below, what's to keep a BG from lying and "identifying" himself as security or LEO?
So, the major issue that has me wondering is "How do I know it's not a crook/home invader whose MO is to emulate LEOs by barking such LEO-type orders?", such as "lemme see your hands", in an authoritative way, in order to get compliance from a victim? Hell, all I saw was a flashlight - no uniform or anything. I'm sure that it's pretty RARE that a bad guy will use leo-emulating orders, but my question is, I suppose, is does anyone know of any documented case where a crook has used such a ruse to effect compliance/disarmament of their victim? For a moment I considered saying "lemme see YOUR hands, muthahumpa, and who the heck are you!?", while drawing my pistol.
But as it was, I never even pulled my pistol out, and the security guard never saw it, I'm quite sure - nor did I see any reason to mention it, once we got to talking about the suspect he was looking for. Anyhow, this numbskull probably would have shot me had he seen me with a pistol and asked questions later, being the cowboy type that that building always employs. But *that question* of numnut security agencies (and their liability for screwups for triggernappiness) aside for the moment, what about this idea of crooks purpsosefully using leo commands.... "stop; police", etc., to gain control - ever happen?
I have heard of documented cases where complete LEO impersonation occurs on out on the highway, in a fake car, with fake uniform, fake badge, in order to abduct women and such. But any documented cases at HOMES of burglarly/home invasion scenarios?
Well, probably never should have stepped outside to begin with? But I was worried about my dogs...