Weight of general purpose rifle...lighten up or get heavy!?

C

checkmyswag

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Looking for a single, general purpose rifle.

Now considering the M1A Scout Squad.

It's semi-auto, magazine fed, major caliber. (yes x 3)

It's 9-ish pounds. I keep reading guys saying its way to heavy to "lug around the woods all day".

I don't have experience lugging anything around all day except the M16. I never found it burdensome but I know it's several pounds lighter.

I have went hiking in the Rockies with 40 pounds on my back for a week...and it never was a problem.

So if I'm alternating sling positions, throughout the day (not carrying it at the ready at all times), is weight that important?
 
Depends on the terrain. Too light and believe it or not a lot of shooters have trouble grouping with them. I have gotten a few guys coming in with the super light Kimber rifles we sold them saying they were shooting like crap. When we went and tested them they were shooting 1 inch groups, and that's with cheap, mixed test fire ammo.

The M1A is a little on the heavy side, but if you are in good shape, and will spend the money on a proper sling, it shouldn't be an issue.
 
As a general rule of thumb, the lighter the rifle the heavier the kick. Of course everyone is a little different, and some people handle recoil better than others. I like em heavy in anything above a 270. It's just me. If it's too heavy, then I'm too out of shape.
 
I don't mind a little heavier rifle. I have two w/ 26" barrels and those are more bothersome than the weight. I bought a ruger hawkeye tactical (ugh tactical gag). Other than the 'tactical' label I really like it. Medium-heavy contour barrel but its only 20" long. The weight makes it a bit more steady while the short barrel makes it handy.
 
is weight that important?
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In terms of being able to hold it all day and still be able to put the bullet on target, no. At least not for me. Now I'm only 28, maybe as I get older it will be that way, but for now it doesn't bother me.

The more I think about it, I will say this.. I'm in the Army and deployed to Afghanistan (although currently on R&R, woohoo!) and I do remember the first day or two that I had to carry my weapon with me all day it was kinda heavy and bothersome. Literally though, now, I forget I'm carrying it. I guess if I went on a one day, all day hunting trip out of the blue, the weight of the weapon could be an annoyance, but I doubt it would cause any problems.

As others have mentioned, heavy rifles tend to be easier to hold off-hand. Same reason video camera operators will add weight to their camera set-up. It gets rid of some of the jitters.
 
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There's a BIG difference between packing 40# in a backpack and a 10# rifle. That 10# M1A will drag your butt by the end of the day even on a sling. When I was younger and working hard for a living, I never noticed the weight of the 03 Springfield or Rem 870 with a 30" barrel. After passing 40, I noticed it a lot but still used them. Now, with 60 in the window, I only use the heavy guns when I know I won't be moving much. I'm leaning toward 7-71/2# carbines or light barrelled rifles more and more. Thinking about adding wheels and a hitch to a couple of rifles so I can just pull them behind the ATV to where I want to hunt kind of like an artillery piece.
 
It sure would help if you would state a purpose. Hunting? SD? Just because? Etc.

For all day comfort lighter is always better and if you don't think a pound or two will make a difference you'd be wrong. Heavier guns do handle recoil better and are easier for most people to shoot accurately off hand. That's kind of a 2 edged sword because most shooters won't ever notice or be able to take advantage of the added weight in the field. Also, heavier guns are slower to bring into action and not nearly as "quick". I can tell you that platform aside there is no way you would catch me carrying a 9+ lbs gun around the woods all day. Heck, I don't even like 8 lbs guns.

As for platform: The odds that you will ever run into someone else carrying the M1A for a woods gun is slim to none. And there's a reason for itExcess weight and needless firepower for starters.

LK
 
I was a huge fan of real combat rifles in the day, and the '70s the difference was a hard line in the concrete. Either you accepted the M16 as is, with all of it's notoriously overblown faults popularized in the press, or went .308 like ALL the other great Western nations: FN FAL, G3, M14, M1, on and on.

I bought a HK91, the semi auto G3, in the mid '70s, less than $170, cheaper than a Remington 700 in the day. Used it hunting for almost 20 years. In the meantime, I joined the Reserves and used that defective pipsqueak plastic poodleshooter for 22 years, thru the "new" A2, made by every supplier to the government.

I could go two weeks full battle rattle in the field, and the M16 wasn't the heavy part or got much attention. I could go all day hunting with a day pack and the HK, and the rifle got most of my attention.

I sold it, and recently built an AR in 6.8. Best of both worlds, it's a battle rifle I'm very used to using, but not a heavy slug that takes the joy out of being in the woods.

If you've carried one type of firearm and used it for an extensive amount of time, you learn how to handle it well enough you don't have to think about it. I'm not getting younger, and the AR is a skill set I'm experienced with. So much so I prefer it to the Remington 700 I did finally buy, or a Win 94. That was a childhood favorite that also feels about "right," probably because Mattel did such a good job it was in my hands for years, too.

You'll be amazed at how awkward the M1A will feel initially, simply because you haven't carried one for two weeks at a time. You will get used to it, put in the time in the field, it will get familiar. But right out of the box, a 16" AR will handle much more easily simply because of experience.

As time goes by, there's less of it, and more comfort is higher priority. The lighter, familiar gun is more likely chosen, so these days, I chose the AR and leave the others to my sons.

They don't know what they're missing.:D
 
For offhand shooting with a light weight rifle, I've found that a slightly muzzle-heavy balance helps.

I went from a 9.5-pound Weatherby to a 6.5-pound Rem 700 Ti. The 22" barrel and the light weight receiver combine for a slightly muzzle-heavy balance, and I've found it to be easy for offhand shooting.

As far as the weight which one can carry, it seems to me that a pack is a balanced load, but a slung rifle is an unbalanced load. I figure that the imbalance is what makes a dozen or more miles with a 9.5-pound rifle fatiguing.
 
I'm pushing 60 and I recently weighed my three main hunting rifles. With scope, mounts and sling they weigh ~8 lbs. I consider that an acceptable weight for a hunting rifle. Were I lugging them up and down mountains, I might want to pare a pound from them, but for here in flatland Louisiana, 8 lbs is just about right. It gives me portability and enough weight for good accuracy.

What I find more important in a rifle that will be carried all day is handiness. Does it hang up in the brush, or is it hard to get in or out of a vehicle? How easy does the rifle comport itself to slipping through the woods? There are trade-offs in everything, and the difference between light, heavy, handy or cumbersome is what I look for in a hunting rifle.

ndking1126 said:
I'm in the Army and deployed to Afghanistan (although currently on R&R, woohoo!)
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Thank you for your service. You have fun on leave, and be careful when you go back. Don't forget to duck!
 
People were writing about this topic even before the army acquired its first M16. The answers are still the same and most of them have been mentioned already. The general idea was that a heavier rifle made snap shooting easier but I don't think I've seen that expression around here lately. Length of the rifle might be a consideration but don't think that automatically translates into a lighter rifle. When an army rifle was a "long" rifle, the rifles didn't seem to weigh any more than the short rifles that followed, beginning around the turn of the century.
 
I've found that while my light rifles are pleasant to carry in the woods, I typically end up cursing their finicky ammo preferences and larger groups at the range when target shooting (my Win 94 comes to mind).
I'm leaning more towards my next hunting rifle having a shorter, but thicker heavy barrel. I seldom need velocity, as it's a rare day that I can shoot more than 300yds.
 
In my opinion, a general purpose rifle should be middling in all things: 18-20" barrel, middle weight, middle power, middle mag capacity or more, and middle caliber. To me, the epitome of a general purpose rifle is a lever-action 30-30... reliable (unless it's a new Marlin!), quick-handling, powerful enough for 200 yard shots, accurate enough for 200 yard shots, easy to find ammo, fairly flat shooting, scopeable at your discretion, reasonable mag capacity.

For those needing slightly less range, a 357 in the same platform would be great too.

If we're thinking full-power chambering, then many of the rifles already mentioned would do.

And lest we forget, the most versatile platform out there is a 12 gauge. They're light, don't need a long barrel, and with a few different shotshells in the stock shellholder, you can do anything from doves/rabbits to bears.
 
Using your yes x3 criteria, have a look at the Merkel SR1. Couple pounds lighter than the M1A, and a bit cheaper too (sells typically for $1200 or so on Gunbroker new). Good choice of calibers too, so I think my 9.3x62 is borderline in regards to acceptable recoil.
 
for general purpose the keyword is "general". you want a gun that can fill a number of different roles. a heavy gun is poorly suited to woods hunting and home defense while a lighter gun is less suited to long range hunting and competition. a lighter bullet is not suited for heavy game while a heavier bullet can be overkill and looses more accuracy over range. a general purpose gun should be one that marginally performs the duties of either extreme while being well suited to a role "somewhere in the middle".
 
My primary concern for the accuracy of a hunting rifle is that the first shot or three from a cold barrel go to the same point of aim/impact as they did yesterday or last week or the month before that. Warming up and groups loosening up at the fourth or fifth shot are irrelevant to hunting, IMO.

(I don't consider prairie dog shooting to be hunting, really. Just sitting and popping the little boogers, hey, they're just sorta fun targets. :D A rifle which is consistently tight-group is the deal.)
 
Rifles that I use to hunt deer/elk I pack up around timberline and I like them to weight 8.5 to 9lbs. It not so much the distance as it walking up hills some at a steep angle and having a good pack. I like a good balance rifle and feels good shooting off-hand if I have to and my barrel lengths vary from 24" up to 27" so barrel contours also vary for weight.

I'm very luck couple months be 70 and I'm still walking the same mtns hunting deer/elk that I did when we moved he in the late 70's. Just takes little longer getting to the high country so have to get up little earlier is all.
 
general purpose

I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but Jeff Cooper laid out some parameters of the GP rifle when he came up with the "Scout rifle" concept.

Folks are hot or cold on the Scout, usually the forward optic is a turn off.
But the weight, length, caliber numbers seem good to me. Somebody will post exact same soon, but the numbers were appx 1 meter long, .30 cal, and maybe 6.5 lbs (sorry no metric weight, all from memory).

All that aside, I have toted a full size M1A a bit, we have a few in the park that are used for hogs and high risk incidents, I and find myself slinging the rifle most times. Not so much for the weight, but there seems no good place to grab it near the balance point, one handed in a trail carry. And the darn mag box, even a 10 rd is outboard and in the way. Ours are scoped, which just makes matters worse. Lest you think me a wimp, I have no such issues with my Garand's, which are in the same class weight and dimension wise. (No Garands at work of course, but I hunt mine a few days every season).

Something like a Lee jungle carbine, a lever .30-30, or for me anyhow, a .308 Scout seems pretty GP.
 
^no worries^

This is really what I'm getting at.

Some of you may have enjoyed (or been annoyed) by my threads over the last few months searching for 1 rifle.

Have explored (virtually I guess) a lot of rifles. Find a negative in each.

I could very well be guilty of being fickle/too picky.

Each time I get settled, ready to order one...I find a reason not to. Like I was so close on the M1A Scout Squad...but now I "need" a folding stuck. Ugh @ me.
 
I think Jeff Cooper's Scout Rifle concept was an interesting exercise, although I don't even own a rifle any more. However, I've owned some that he mentioned and found them to be everything he described them to be. But that's as far as it goes. The only problem I had with His concept was his idea of a scout. That's a different problem but it does get to the heart of the matter of what a general purpose rifle needs to be. It depends probably more on where you live (or more precisely, where you will be with the rifle) than anything else. As an example, one could postulate that the further west you live, the further you might be expected to shoot. And so on.

I don't know who bought the Scout Rifles but it was more of a sportsman's rifle than a scout's rifle, a sportsman being someone with a lot of money who hunts. The Scout Rifle was expensive, although probably half the cost was in the optics. There were things about it I didn't care for and in any case, I'm was never enthusiastic about scopes in the first place. But it was certainly otherwise something I would have been proud to own, once I got over the embarassment of having something like that. I don't know if they're still available or not. But having gone through the army when they had M14s, I'd rather have an M1A, provided they are as good as an M14 (also a different subject).
 
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