Webley VI, All Original, need some insight on Value

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FastOrange

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Hi Guys, new to the site, and i need some insight on my next purchase.

I have come across a Webley .455 that a family member has for sale, and im thinking about picking up when i get my restricted license.

Anyways, Gun Says Mark VI on it, all serial numbers match and are complete, cylinder has proof marks on it, gun is STILL a .455 gun, has NOT be converted

also says it was patented in 1916

Gun was checked out a number of years ago and was A-OK to Fire (I would not be firing it. its more of a show piece)

Like i said, all numbers are there AND MATCH!, Gun looks in great shape AND is in a leather holster that has a cleaning rod on the side (Is this the proper holster?)

Guess what im trying to ask is, what is the current value of these guns? i have seen from $100-$1000.

Gun is supposedly brought back from WWI?

Any ideas folks? i would like to offer her a fair amount, she has came into some hard times.
 
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Unlike autos, most surplus revolvers do have matching numbers, as they were seldom stripped down in bunches and reassembled like autos often were.

Having matching numbers is nice, and adds to the collector value.

The Mark VI (mark 6) was the last big bore Webley, and was the standard British sidearm in WW I. I have one dated 1917. The proper holster for the WW I gun is leather. Don't know about the cleaning rod, sorry.

The Mk VI was secondary standard in WW II, and guns still in the inventory were issued and used, although the "proper" (firstline standard) for WW II is the Webley in .380 (aka .38/200 aka .38 S&W -[not the .38 Special])

Mk VI's used in WWII often rode in a canvas (web) holster, normally a light tan/yellowish color, if the original leather was not available. I have one of these, a full flap, very practical piece for durable carry, but not for gunfighting.

Webley values are all over the map, and have climbed a lot lately. Local interest and collector interest makes a difference too. I gave $125 for mine, but that was over a decade ago, and I have seen earlier marks going for huge money ($800) due to their rarity.

Un cut, all original, and in good shape, its worth the most it can be, but unfortuantely, I can't tell you what that is today, sorry.
 
Still being original and not "shaved" adds to the value immensely. Conservatively, I'd say your revolver is probably worth at least $600 and probably substantially more to a collector who knows what he's looking at.

A bit of history on the Mk. VI: The Mk. VI was the last Webley to be standard issue for the British Military and also the largest and strongest of the .455-caliber guns (the Mk. V and Mk. VI are the only two so-chambered guns to be suitable for smokeless powder). The Mk. VI replaced the Mk. V as standard issue in 1915 and remained the standard-issue sidearm until 1926.

At that time, the Brits decided that a 200grn .38-caliber bullet at roughly the same velocity as their 262grn .455 rounds would be nearly as effective and easier to shoot thus reducing the time and cost needed to train new troops. As such, they began looking for a gun to replace the Mk. VI and Webley submitted their Mk IV revolver (not to be confused with the older .455 Mk. IV from 1899) in .38/200 (basically a .38 S&W loaded with a 200grn bullet instead of the American standard 146grn bullet).

Fairly shortly after the introduction of this loading, however, it became apparent that the all-lead 200grn bullet may have run afoul of the Hauge Convention which outlawed expanding bullets (the thought was that lead may deform and expand too easily). Because of this, the original 200grn .380 Mk. I loading was replaced in service with the .380 Mk. II loading which used a 178grn FMJ bullet at slightly higher velocity (a bit over 700fps IIRC). The .380 Mk. II loading, however, quickly gained a rather poor reputation in combat as it usually did little more than punch a neat little .360" hole and was not as penetrative as other common .38-caliber cartridges like .38 Special and 9mm.

It was at this point that the British Government decided to pull a fast one, they took the Mk. IV and made a few minor modifications (which they never asked Webley to make) and decided to produce their own revolver, the Enfield No. 2 Mk. 1, rather than buy the gun Webley had gone to the trouble and expense to design. Webley according sued the government for what amounted to patent infringement in order to recoup their losses. While their suit was originally dismissed, Webley was eventually paid approximately half of what they sued for.

Webley did eventually have the last laugh though as when WWII broke out, the British Government found that they were unable to produce enough Enfield No. 2 Mk. 1 and the subsequent Mk. 1* and Mk. 1** so they wound up buying Webley Mk. IV's with 5" barrels anyway.

Unlike the Mk. I-IV, your revolver is entirely suitable for the smokeless .455 Webley Mk. II cartridge. If you want to shoot the gun, loaded ammunition is available from both Fiocchi and Hornady and both companies use reloadable Boxer-primed brass (although I think one company may use small pistol primers while the other uses large pistol primers). If you want to reload, you may or may not get very good accuracy from standard .45 caliber bullets (most .45 caliber bullets run anywhere from .451-.454" diameter while the .455 Webley uses a true .455" bullet). Remington does offer a 250grn swaged lead bullet meant for .45 Long Colt loadings that is .455" diameter and that would probably be my choice if I were going to reload .455 Webley ammo.
 
A picture would help, as the overall condition and amount of original finish are important in judging value. For one in excellent condition, with 95% or greater of the original finish, USD 500-600 would be a reasonable price.

FWIW, the British government's dispute with Webley over the .380 revolver is well known, but in fact the government changes were pretty major modifications and (IMHO) made the Enfield revolver a considerably better military weapon than the Webley Mk IV.

Jim
 
Sorry for the long wait.

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It's in fair shape. There's little original finish and it appears to have rusted at some point and the rust was scraped off with coarse, dry steel wool. The LH grip is broken.

It's still a neat gun, but it's not a valuable collector's piece.
 
As a Webley collector for too many years, I agree with all of the above. The Mark VI is a fun shooter, albeit with a miserably heavy act trigger. The true rarity in the Mark VI series is the post WW1 models built in small numbers which were made to commercial standards. Beautifully finished, much smoother action, and worth a LOT more -- if you can find one. (And no, mine is not for sale.). Dave
 
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I wouldn't describe your revolver as being in "great shape", at least in regard to the finish. As natman noted, there's precious little of the original finish left and there is some light pitting in evidence. The broken grip doesn't help the value either. I agree with natman's call in terms of the status of the condition as being "fair". Still, if the bore is clean and unpitted and the timing, trigger pull and cylinder lock-up are all within "specs", I'd say the classic, original, "unshaved" old Webley is worth somewhere between $350.00 and $450.00-not much less and very little more.
 
I didnt realize about the condition it was in, I only got a quick glance on it until last night (We have to keep Handguns locked up like fort knox up here)

I do agree after looking at it for awhile that it is just fair condition.

Im gonna keep it though, because it in my ind is a piece of history and a nice looking piece.

Thanks for the insight guys!, first and only handgun we have had in the house, We are hunting rifle guys
 
1916 Webley Mark VI - need advice

I recently acquired a 1916 Webley Mark VI with a serial # in the low 200,000's. All parts match and cylinder is not shaved down for ,45 acp. I think this has been re-blued because it does not have the standard finish. It is bright classic european rust blueing. Does any one know if these were ever sold on the commercial market? I ask this because the revolver does not have the usual british military broad arrow markings I see on other examples as evidence of military issuance and bc of the finish. I took it to my local gunsmith and he says it was not re-blued as far as he can tell-even after taking it apart and really examining it.

So, I hope that some of the usual Webley experts are on-line and can throw in their two cents and give me some advice on this fine side arm.
 
I expect that our companion webleymkv will eventually notice this old&new thread and will tell you about civilian versions of the Mk VI. I frankly do not know.

But I will throw in something I noticed not too long ago, this being the thread by GrantR Canada on British Militaria Forums. He says shooting .45 ACP or 45 AR in a "shaved" Mark VI is a very bad idea.

Reason? The standard .45 ACP load is 19,000 PSI. Yet the maximum, don't go past this, pressure for the .455 Webley cartridge is 13,200 PSI. Compare the numbers, then make up your own mind. I see a 44% increase in pressure and would not want to fire the US rounds in this revolver.

Kids, Don't do this at home or range!

Bart Noir
 
I expect that our companion webleymkv will eventually notice this old&new thread and will tell you about civilian versions of the Mk VI. I frankly do not know.
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Unfortunately, I'm not all that familiar with commercial Webleys either as my main area of interest lies with the military models. The best advice that I can give as to whether or not JBriggs' Mk. VI has been reblued is to closely examine it to see if any of the markings look unusually light or faint. That would be a good indication that someone got a little happy with polishing and would thus be suggestive of a refinish.

But I will throw in something I noticed not too long ago, this being the thread by GrantR Canada on British Militaria Forums. He says shooting .45 ACP or 45 AR in a "shaved" Mark VI is a very bad idea.

Reason? The standard .45 ACP load is 19,000 PSI. Yet the maximum, don't go past this, pressure for the .455 Webley cartridge is 13,200 PSI. Compare the numbers, then make up your own mind. I see a 44% increase in pressure and would not want to fire the US rounds in this revolver.
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That is excellent advice. The maximum standard pressure for .45 ACP is very near a proof load for .455 Webley Mk. II and, as such, standard .45 ACP ammunition should be considered unsafe to fire in a converted Webley. While the Mk. V and Mk. VI are fairly strong guns and a specimen in good condition is not likely to blow up with the use of .45 ACP ammo (though I have heard of it happening), at the very least regular use will drastically shorten the life of the gun.

What is even scarier is that I've seen "shaved" Webleys as old as Mk. I's:eek:. Under no circumstances should a .455 Webley Mk. I, II, or III be fired with smokeless powder as they were all designed for, and only suitable to be fired with, the older .455 Mk. I black powder cartridge or equivalent handloads. The .455 Mk. IV (not to be confused with the later .38 Mk. IV) was a transitional model and, while used with cordite Mk. II cartridges, is probably also best relegated to black powder. My advice is to only shoot smokeless powder ammunition in Mk. V and Mk. VI revolvers and then only with mild Mk. II-level handloads or factory Mk. II ammo if your specimen is "unshaven". While good robust guns for their time, remember that the newest Mk. VI revolvers are 80+ years old and that the oldest Mk. V's are 100 years old, not something I'd want to try hot-rodding.
 
Unfortunately there are some Webley fans who persist in spreading the idea that Webleys (any Webleys) are super strong and can never be blown up. (This is sort of like similar false claims about Rugers, but with much less rationale.)

Webleys most certainly can be blown and many have been, especially those old guns modified to use .45 ACP. The Mk VI is stronger, but those also have had cylinders blown by using .45 ACP. Now that there are .45 ACP +P loads available over the counter, it is even more necessary to be sure that any .45 ACP loads used in a Webley be very mild, equivalent to .45 Colt (NOT RUGER) loads or even lighter.

Jim
 
" it does not have the standard finish."

The markings on the gun will be the determining factor.

If it has British military proof and acceptance (broad arrow) markings, it was a military gun and the bright blue finish is very likely aftermarket.

If it does not have British military markings, then it's likely a civilian purchased gun.

That said, I'm not aware of Webley selling any Mk VIs on the commercial market.
 
Some of the confusion arises because there were two series of Mark designated revolvers. The Webley Mk I through Mk IV were commercial guns. But the military Mark designated revolvers Mk I through Mk VI were given those numbers by the military. A Webley Mk IV is NOT the same gun as a military Mk IV, even if the military gun was made by Webley.

AFAIK, Mike is correct; Webley never made the Mk VI for commercial sale. However, Webley did not make all of them; I have an Enfield Mk VI.

Jim
 
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