Webley aficionados

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madcratebuilder

New member
I found this last weekend and have not been able to find much on the web about this particular Mk#. The only marking is "WEBLEY Mark II Patents" A very large broad arrow on the top strap and several small broad arrow marks in various places. Crown marking on the cylinder. No other letters or numbers. It has been cut to ecept .45acp with moon clips.
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Without more info it appears to be a Webley & Scott Mark II made from 1894 to 1897. For more detailed info try to get a copy of William Dowell's "The Webley Story", 1987.

Should be a good shooter in 45ACp with moon or 1/2 moon clips. The conversion kills what little collectors value it had but I would think it would be a great reliable big bore carry piece. I would love to have one for just that reason.
 
Yep....MKII.....You Lucky DAWG ! Very nice find.Just love those Webleys !!!
let us know whow well she shoots !!! Here is my latest Webley....a few more years older than your...its a Metropolitian Police.
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DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, SHOOT EITHER .45 ACP OR ANY SMOKELESS LOADS THROUGH THAT GUN!

Early Webley revolvers simply will not stand up to the pressures generated by smokeless powder.

When Cordite was introduced into military service, the Webley Mk V was introduced and all early Mks were withdrawn because they could not handle even the modest pressures generated by the Cordite. The Mk V used a heavier cylinder, apparently with different heat treating, to stand the smokeless powder.

If you want to shoot your gun, do so ONLY with blackpowder charges.

I don't even want to think what a full power .45 ACP might do to it. It's very likely that it has been shot with .45 ACP since it's been cut, but that only makes the fact that it's not a piece of scrap metal rather remarkable.
 
Thanks for the heads up Mike. I have read several posts about this issue. I have considered having the cylinder repaired so I can shoot .455 loaded with black powder, or I well load some acp with black.

There is a N stamped on the back strap, is this a Brit naval acceptance mark?
 
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the stampings on these guns other than the broad arrow.

As for brass, use .45 Auto Rim brass. It's easier than dealing with moon clips and it looks a bit more authentic.

The only way to repair the cylinder is to replace it, and they are not cheap for the earlier guns.
 
The only way to repair the cylinder is to replace it, and they are not cheap for the earlier guns.
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There's a smith that has laser cut steel plates that he sweat solders on the cut end of the cylinder and extractor. I want to read more feed back about the process but it sounds doable. You would still see the new metal unless you re-blued the cylinder and I don't want to do that. I just may get some auto rim as you suggested. I don't think I well shot this every day, but it is a cool old revolver and looks great with the Enfield rifles.
 
Hey Madcrate - if you're a reloader look into Blackhorn 209 black powder substitute. Using some 45 Auto Rim brass and Bh209 I think you'd build some seriously fun rounds, they'd be safe from a pressure perspective (look at the data on Bh's web page - pressures in pistol loadings are really low and you max out the case before you get anywhere near unsafe), and you'd have a non-corrosive loading that cleans up easy using normal gun cleaning solvents and products.

I would buy that pistol in a heartbeat if I ran across it in Tucson!! Great find.

Oly
 
The .45 ACP pressure of 21,000 psi is almost twice that of the early .455 loads (12,000 psi). Some converted Mk VI revolvers have blown with GI or factory .45 ACP, so take heed for those even earlier guns.

There is some kind of myth that Webley revolvers are super strong and never blow up, and "pride of the Empire and God Save the Queen (Victoria, that is)" but Webley had no magic formula and the guns do blow.

In fact, when the Webley M1913 Auto Pistol was adopted into limited service, warnings were issued not to fire the auto pistol cartridge in revolvers (which could be done as the pistol cartridge was semi-rimmed) due to the higher pressure.

Jim
 
A good bullet to use in handloads for your revolver would be these

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601446981

These Remington bullets are both of proper diameter (.455) and heavy weight (250grn) that they will likely be the most accurate in your Webley. Shooters using .45 ACP ammunition or bullets often report poor accuracy due to undersize bullets (.451 vs. .455) and low bullet weight (230grn vs. 262grn) when compared to the original loadings.
 
If you don't want to mess with black powder, there are some light smokeless loads you can use that generate very low pressures. I would definitely do some comprehensive research first, to make sure that you are keeping the pressures very low, however.
 
I well use black powder for certain, I keep plenty on hand along with Pyrodex and T7. I think I have used five pounds in the past three years.

I've read about the Blackhorn 209 but I haven't bought any yet. I was under the impression it's intended for in-liners.

Webleymkv, thanks for the bullet tip.
 
"there are some light smokeless loads you can use that generate very low pressures."

The British found that the early Webleys were pretty much unsuitable for use with any load that could get the bullet out of the barrel.

Do not use smokeless powder in early Mk Webleys. At all.
 
Madcrate, the other good use for BH209 is metallic cartridge reloading. They've got load data on their web site. Nothing for .455 but they do have many others and I think you'll see that cases max out before pressure gets anywhere near a problem. It's a black powder substitute after all! Just takes good ignition and of course you get that in a metallic cartridge.

Nothing wrong with real BP either of course and I know you know how to clean up after it, but that gun is a bit more pesky to take all the way down than a Colt single action so I thought you might appreciate something that's not corrosive and can be cleaned up with standard nitro fluids.

Best,
Oly
 
Do not use smokeless powder in early Mk Webleys. At all.
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I would tend to disagree. The British never used inferior steels in their weapons (bayonets excepted), and there are plenty of low pressure smokeless light loads that can be used. You just need to make sure that you don't exceed the working pressures of contemporary loads.

Black powder is fun, but requires extensive cleaning of your weapon and tends to ruin brass.
 
I have three Wobbleys, a 1916 Mark VI, a 1923 Enfield Mark VI, an Israeli proofed .38 and a .32 Snubby. Both Mark VI s are .455 and I load for them.

I would not shoot a converted Wobbler under ANY circumstances. These conversions were generally done years ago and it was "accepted practice" to shoot them with .45acp. The stress and strain put on the cylinder of these revolvers by one moon clip of .45acp could make one of them subsequently blow on even the lightest load, and yes, any actuality of that happening is apocryphal, although discussed on the specialized Webley forums IIRC.

I would shoot any otherwise safe smokeless proofed Weblely that was not converted,

WildhaveyouarmswatsonyesihavemyoldservicerevolverAlaska TM
 
"The British never used inferior steels in their weapons"

It's not a question of inferior steel, and I never claimed it to be such.

It's a question of design, construction, and what's happened to that gun since it was made better than a Century ago.

The cylinders on the BP-era Webleys are not as robust (steel thicknesses) as the later Cordite Webleys.

The heat treating on early Webleys is pretty much non-existent. I've been told, but have no way of confirming it, that the British didn't start heat treating Webley frames or cylinders to any consistent specification until the adoption of Cordite.

Smokeless powders have very different burning characteristics than black powder and even if overall pressure is below black powder levels can still stress an old gun in ways that were never expected in BP days. That's why you see warnings not to shoot smokeless loads of any kind out of BP era pocket revolvers. They can eat BP loads all day long, but even light smokeless loads can have an adverse effect on the gun's health.

That's why the British withdrew from service all BP era Webleys when the switch was made to Cordite. Even though overall operating pressures were the same, Cordite still put stresses on the guns that they simply couldn't handle.

As WA notes, given that this gun was converted (perverted?) it's very possible that it has been fired with .45 ACP ammo and that there are larger issues just waiting to happen because of that.

The final reason why I wouldn't shoot that gun with even light smokeless loads? It's too nice looking to even take the chance. BP and even Pyrodex are readily available and will serve the purpose just fine.
 
One last general admonition for Webleys of this age...

NO JACKETED BULLETS.

Same as with Winchesters, Colts, or S&Ws of a similar age.

Jacketed bullets and wash the rifling out of the older, softer steels in very short order.
 
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