Weather related issue?

5

50 shooter

New member
A couple of weekends back I was at the range, when I first got there it looked like it was going to be a good day. A few miles from the range I passed through a little fog and hoped it wasn't going to be foggy. Came out of it quickly and figured it was just an isolated thing as I was driving through some small hills and valley's.

Get to the range, the sun is out and there's some low lying clouds, the range is up in the hills in one of those valley's. So about 10 minutes before the range goes hot the wind starts blowing a little and the fog rolls in out of nowhere. It's so thick that you could barely see the 50 yard targets! And of course it's laying a mist on everything so I made sure to leave the guns in their cases and cover everything that was laying on the bench.

Fast forward about an hour or so and the fog lifts enough to shoot past 50 yards, I hadn't shot my 500 S&W yet so... As I'm shooting it I get a couple hangfires, not long ones just a click and then bang. I've shot these reloads before with zero issues, powder and primers are good. The powder was H110, CCI primers...

The ammo was in a box sitting on the bench with everything else, I've never used magnum primers for 500 S&W, 454... never saw the need as everything always went bang when the trigger was pulled. Is it possible that the rapid change in weather affected these rounds even though they were in a box? Most of the people there were in t-shirts but when the fog rolled in the temp dropped a few degrees also and everyone put their jackets on.

I really don't feel like breaking down the rest of the rounds I have loaded but that nagging little voice is nagging at me just waiting to say " I told you so "! Weather, primers, combination of the two... will it happen again? Are the primers ruined now or will they work like before when the weather was good? The last thing I want is a click and no bang, opening the cylinder on a 500 with a round that could go off isn't my idea of fun.
 
It is very unlikely that your fail to fire problems were caused by weather, or because you, "...were not using magnum primers...". Look instead for high primers or some mechanical problem like the strain screw backed out.
 
Hodgdon recommends magnum primers with H-110. A 500 S&W contains a lot of powder and needs a big fire starter.
 
Any moisture inside the round was already there before you got to the range.
Properly loaded rounds are pretty much waterproof.
 
Your ammo wouldn't be affected that fast. And it'd be the powder, not the primer that'd be affected by wet. Same ammo work before?
"...Hodgdon recommends magnum primers with H-110..." Not in .30 Carbine they don't. Or .45 Colt, .480 Ruger, or .475 Linebaugh, et al. Hodgdon has been saying magnum primers for magnum named cartridges but not for non-magnum named cartridges for eons. I think something is wrong with whoever keeps the site up to date.
Anyway, it's not about the amount of powder. It's about how easy or not easy it is to ignite. And H110 isn't hard to light.
 
Most, if not all of my manuals require the use of a magnum primer with H110 powder. Your "unusual" situation could have been due to cooler temperatures due to the fog evaporating or you may have just been lucky up to this point. H110 is also sensitive to reduced loads so use no less than the recommended start load.
I think you have been fortunate up to this point and you need to start using magnum primers with the H110 and if you are reducing the loads start using a different powder.
 
I don't use reduced loads for H110 and in all the years using it for 454 and 500 with standard primers I've never had an issue.

I compared the seating of the primers to some factory ammo that I have, my primers are seated deep enough. At least they look and feel the same as the factory stuff, doubt a set of calipers would show much if any difference.

I guess I'll pull some and see if I find anything strange with the powder. Could a piece of corn cob in the flash hole cause an issue? I wouldn't think so but I'll check the ones I pull for any.
 
Hodgdon recommends magnum primers with H-110.
Click to expand...

For the record Winchester doesn't make Large Pistol Magnum primers. They marketed Winchester W296 (same as H110) and only ever called out their large pistol primers for any loads requiring large pistol sized primers. I think the OP's cartridge qualifies on using LPP ;).

That said is doesn't mean that the primer he WAS using may have contributed but I am thinking media in the flash hole or not fully seated primers.
 
Unless you are using the early production .500 S&W Magnum brass... you should be rolling handloads with a LARGE RIFLE PRIMER.

Weather is for certain not the culprit. I believe it's quite possible that you didn't have a very, very firm roll crimp. These large magnum revolver rounds demand it.
 
454pb wrote: And for the record.......

The 500 S&W uses a large rifle magnum primer:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

Winchester large pistol primers are for both standard and magnum use, or in other words, hotter than a standard large pistol primer.
454PB is offline Report Post
Click to expand...

Yes and the point I was trying to make was that many parrot a certain line without knowing the facts of the matter. And the fact is that even a Large Rifle Standard Primer has more juice than a Large Pistol Magnum and a Winchester Large Pistol will light off a charge of W296 / H110 in any round made for a Large Pistol Primer. The "you need a Magnum Primer with XXX Powder" is B.S. You need to know the why and in some cases the why is just because.
 
I wasn't "parroting", I was repeating what Hodgdon says to use for loading H-110 (their powder) in the 500 S&W.

We are all free to do and think whatever we want, but when someone has a question, quoting the manufacturers recommendations is usually helpful.

I've had several adventures involving squibs and hangfires in magnum handguns utilizing slow burning ball powders. I hope my opinions and advise help prevent others from the same problems.
 
I wasn't "parroting", I was repeating what Hodgdon says to use for loading H-110 (their powder) in the 500 S&W.
Click to expand...

In a response I made a general statement that you seem to have taken personally. So be it; it does not change my statement and position on the matter.

And as far as Magnum Primers go... Lyman used CCI 200's for their data. Those are standard Large Rifle. My point to the OP was Magnum Primers or lack of them is likely NOT the root cause to his problem.


And my basis for using the Winchester Large Pistol example was to point out a logical fallacy trap that too many people fall into. It goes back to WHY! Hodgdons doesn't make H110, they distribute it. It is St. Marks Western Cannon 296.
 
Would any of the rounds fire from a second hammer strike ?

I would guess... A, they were not fully seated.... B, faulty Primers.

Disassemble a few of the duds... see if the primer wasn't hot enough to fully ignite the powder.
 
All of the rounds fired on the first strike, it was the click and then bang that had me worried. All of my other rounds would fire as soon as the hammer dropped. That's what prompted me to ask this question and to find a best possible answer.

I pulled 10 rounds down and did not find anything that would indicate that there was a problem, powder, primers and flash holes all look good.
 
Here is another indicator that weather isn't the culprit. You are in So. Cal. It doesn't get cold enough unless you are up in altitude and even then you won't see sub zero temps even at the top of San Gorgonio Mountain. Anything south of the Tehachapi's just doesn't get that cold... never has in the 50 years of my life.

If the flash holes are clear, chances are the primers were not fully seated and the delay was the firing pin finishing the seat and the primer pellet finally getting set off. Haveing set off 70 grain doses of W760 with CCI 200's I just don't see the primer vs. mid 30 grain doses of H110 / W296 as being a problem.
 
That's the myth people believe about SoCal, it was 28 degrees at my place this morning. I live in Lancaster and have had 6" of snow on the ground here (we've had single digits here also). The first time I took my .50 BMG out to shoot it and meet up with other .50 owners, we were shooting in snow at Lytle Creek.

Angeles Shooting Range sits in the San Gabriel Mtns. and they get snow on them, right now there's snow sitting on them. Desert Marksman sits on the Antelope Valley side of the same and has snow on it now. So it does get cold here in sunny SoCal despite what people see on TV and movies. This weekend more snow will be dumped on them and if it stays cold here I just might see some.:cool:
 
I haven't bothered with Lytle Creek in years.. too many idiots. Besides, I have a friend who has some acreage in the San Ber. Mts. where I can do short to moderate range. I also get to hunt his property and the forest around it. If I want long distance I go near Ft. Irwin.

And contrary to popular belief, I have seen mid 20's here at the coast. I'm near L.A. Airport. You are correct in that so many people have no understanding about our weather, nor do many realize we have several micro climates.
 
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