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We Aren't Serious
- Thread starter Mort
- Start date
Eric Blair
New member
I have to agree with Oleg.
Unless you know people there personally, all the news we get is by the same people who parrot 43 times more likly, 12 kids a day, etc.
Eric
Unless you know people there personally, all the news we get is by the same people who parrot 43 times more likly, 12 kids a day, etc.
Eric
I'm not sure what you fellows' point is when you say we don't really know what's going on. We know Parliament has been burned; we know the airwaves have been reposessed; we know that power has transferred from one side to the other. And this isn't the first time it's happened, especially in Eastern Europe where their tolerance for tyranny seems lower than our own. This is my point.
Bull. They've endured 13 years of military dictatorship to get to this point. Now, if Bill Clinton decides to stay in office and gets the military to keep him there, then starts killing off everyone except pure Southern Democrats (preferably from Arkansas,) and he lasts longer than 13 years, then you might have a point.
Al Mondroca
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mort:
Events in Yugoslavia tonight force me to draw this conclusion: we must not be serious. Oorganized opposition in that nation has taken two weeks to get results. We, on the other hand, have been backsliding for 70 years.[/quote]
We haven't endured what the Yugoslavians have endured. Historically, it takes a great deal of provocation to get large numbers of people to risk their safety to overthrow a hostile government. And that's a universal rule of behavior--it doesn't apply only to "soft" Americans. The founders of the USA recognized that, writing that people are prone to endure a tyrannical government for a long time before finally acting to reform or replace it. This isn't a new concept. [If you're a bible-reading kinda guy, consider the history of the jews in the old testament--over and over again, they'd stray from their core principles, get into trouble and endure generations of tribulations before they got their act together again and won their freedom. A few generations later, they'd start drifting again....]
For better or worse, we're living in an America which is still in the "drifting" phase. And much as I'd like to think it will change for the better soon, things may have to get a lot worse before they get better--in large part because a lot of people, despite their grumbling about this or that, still think things are pretty good overall.
Events in Yugoslavia tonight force me to draw this conclusion: we must not be serious. Oorganized opposition in that nation has taken two weeks to get results. We, on the other hand, have been backsliding for 70 years.[/quote]
We haven't endured what the Yugoslavians have endured. Historically, it takes a great deal of provocation to get large numbers of people to risk their safety to overthrow a hostile government. And that's a universal rule of behavior--it doesn't apply only to "soft" Americans. The founders of the USA recognized that, writing that people are prone to endure a tyrannical government for a long time before finally acting to reform or replace it. This isn't a new concept. [If you're a bible-reading kinda guy, consider the history of the jews in the old testament--over and over again, they'd stray from their core principles, get into trouble and endure generations of tribulations before they got their act together again and won their freedom. A few generations later, they'd start drifting again....]
For better or worse, we're living in an America which is still in the "drifting" phase. And much as I'd like to think it will change for the better soon, things may have to get a lot worse before they get better--in large part because a lot of people, despite their grumbling about this or that, still think things are pretty good overall.
This is an interesting but double-edged sword. There was some news show yesterday that pointed out the success of many peoples' revolution like in Romania, Yugoslavia, Iran (a success but not for my style of government), Philippines, etc.
But note that in these revolutions, it was without major use of an armed citizenry.
The people demonstrated and the armed forces of the country and the police did not act against them.
Many folks on this list and others argue for the need of personal arms to overthrow the government but we see more tyrannical governments falling to civil disobedience.
Thus are these examples good for the RKBA?
But note that in these revolutions, it was without major use of an armed citizenry.
The people demonstrated and the armed forces of the country and the police did not act against them.
Many folks on this list and others argue for the need of personal arms to overthrow the government but we see more tyrannical governments falling to civil disobedience.
Thus are these examples good for the RKBA?
There is a theme running through these responses: as Al put it, "We haven't endured what the Yugoslavians have endured." I realize that none of you are asserting this fact in defense of inaction; rather you are giving it as the reason for inaction.
True enough. But I the drawing of direct parallels is not my concern here (and I apologize for the vagueness of my first post). I am not concerned with the legacy of tyranny in Yugoslavia, the legitimacy of its past regime or any aspect, Gwinny, of our current administration.
I am concerned with the fact that thousands of people, unified in purpose, gathered in their nation's capital, drove a tractor through the doors of Parliament and set it on fire.
Reference this information with the recent protests in Seattle, where thousands of people gathered in vehemence for an extremely vague purpose. In turn, reference that information with the number of people truly fed up ("JPFO fed up", not "NRA fed up") with very specific issues, who have very specific demands.
Why are we not marching in the streets every day? Where are the Freedom Rides? Where is the action? Have our pistols made us overconfident to the point of complete withdrawal from radical politics?
EnochGale, I see your point. But what other options are available to us? If peaceful revolution works, why discount it? Are we clinging to the hazy and faraway concept of guerilla warfare? Why?
True enough. But I the drawing of direct parallels is not my concern here (and I apologize for the vagueness of my first post). I am not concerned with the legacy of tyranny in Yugoslavia, the legitimacy of its past regime or any aspect, Gwinny, of our current administration.
I am concerned with the fact that thousands of people, unified in purpose, gathered in their nation's capital, drove a tractor through the doors of Parliament and set it on fire.
Reference this information with the recent protests in Seattle, where thousands of people gathered in vehemence for an extremely vague purpose. In turn, reference that information with the number of people truly fed up ("JPFO fed up", not "NRA fed up") with very specific issues, who have very specific demands.
Why are we not marching in the streets every day? Where are the Freedom Rides? Where is the action? Have our pistols made us overconfident to the point of complete withdrawal from radical politics?
EnochGale, I see your point. But what other options are available to us? If peaceful revolution works, why discount it? Are we clinging to the hazy and faraway concept of guerilla warfare? Why?
Country Boy
New member
"But what other options are available to us? If peaceful revolution works, why discount it? Are we clinging to the hazy and faraway concept of guerilla warfare? Why?"
Good point Mort.
Good point Mort.
Stephen Ewing
New member
I'm reminded of a quote from, IIRC, DeGaulle: "People get the history they deserve." It seems to be a variation on Paine's old Social Contract, which I've always felt to be valid. So, no, we're not serious, as a nation. If we were, by that fact alone, we'd have better. Q.E.D.
Incidentally, wasn't DeGaulle also the guy who predicted the Clinton presidency with (approximately) "The Americans will commit every act of stupidity that can be imagined. Then, they will commit a few that cannot be imagined."?
Steve
Incidentally, wasn't DeGaulle also the guy who predicted the Clinton presidency with (approximately) "The Americans will commit every act of stupidity that can be imagined. Then, they will commit a few that cannot be imagined."?
Steve