We are the KGBATF...

R

RickD

Moderator
Angel Shamaya of www.keepandbeararms and John Ardon(sp) of www.cphv.com spent some time with Jerry yesterday interviewing him.

It appears the BATF had a problem with him selling customers' guns on consignment. For some reason BATF called that acting as a pawnshop, for which he had not applied for the $100 City of Mesa permit.

Consignment means no money changes hands. All sales go through NICS. This is not pawning at all, not that I really care.

They trashed his place for the lack of a $100 permit which as far as I can see, he doesn't need.
www.keepandbeararms.com will be sending out the guts of its interview. It is time to go on offense. Contact your favorite media types.

We need to expose the BATF for the unruly thugs they are.

Rick
 
No, Angel called me last night as I lay slumbering. He told me about the meeting he had with Jerry.

He asked if I wanted to join him in a meeting with BATF. I told him yes, as long as we utilized this to publicize with the media exactly what the BATF is up to. This is not yet on the media's radar screen with all the alternative fuel debacle here in Arizona and the elections just one week away. Hmmm. Good timing by the BATF.

I hope this effort in Arizona becomes a national plan to yet again show people just who F-Troop is.

Rick
Shining the disinfecting rays of sunshine on the bad guys.
 
Sad, sad story. A coersive arm of the federal gov't finds it necessary to intimidate law abiding citizens. My guess is this is going on all over the place, just unknown by most.

This episode points out a colossal problem a President Dubya will face. The president is reponsible for political appointees in various agencies. They will in turn appoint and promote people with whom they agree and support. Looks to me like the BATF among others is infested with zealous political appointees and fellow travelers who swear allegience to something other than the constitution and bill of rights.

A President Dubya will have to administer the mother of all laxatives to clean out these agencies. If he wins I hope 1) he recognizes the need to clean house, and 2) he has the moral fiber to do it. If he is elected and fails to clean out, the constitution and bill of rights is not safe.

In my view the new president will have a mandate to clean house. I hope he does.

------------------
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

Barry Goldwater--1964
 
Okay, Waitone.

Dubya and Cheney are going to be calling in the medium to smaller radio shows (Ollie North is pretty easy to get on, Rush is virtually impossible).

I suggest that you hit your local rkba lists and send out the word to have people ready to call in and tell the candidates what the BATF is doing and that just after they steam-clean the Oval office, they need to clean house at Treasury and the BATF therein.

I just missed getting ahold of Cheney yesterday on Ollie. Dang.

Once they get in office, they won't be nearly as accessible.

Rick
Spread the word.
 
RICK--is their a specific link to where
Angel has this on is site.
I want to be able to forward this to my reps now running for office but in John's version
their wasnt a specific shop/address mentioned.
Is their a local story someone can paste that I can refer my reps to to look into
and 'investigate?
 
Shoot... :D

I've been under the depression that the KGB was really a synonym for Klinton Gun Ban.
Boy was I way off!!
 
I spoke with Angel Shamaya late last night before he had begun to write it up. Knowing Angel, this won't be a short one. He needs to write it, proof it, and then send it to the webmaster to put it on the site.

I have not yet gotten my KABA report today so it looks like he isn't done yet.

Here is the name and address of the gunshop.

Jerry's Guns and Ammo (Specialty Firearms)
1055 North Mesa Drive
Mesa, Arizona 85201
480-962-0913

Just another rallying point. Let's make the most of it.

Rick
 
Ooops by local I mean out of your newspaper.

Hey Ed(R-Ed Bryant)

Ya know that frienldy gun dealer over in
Arizonza? Well anyway some of your Federalies
were kinda roughing him up and stole a bunch his firearms.I hear they didnt even have a warrant for the guns now if I was their it would have gotten much worse but anyway you need to stop this outright government theft of civillian property.
You do know what Im talking about right
ED?
 
There was a big article in the new issue of American rifleman that had some instances of batf abuses. Maybe the word is getting out.
 
Why can't this guy sue the government for the financial losses and emotional distress, not to mention clear violation of his rights? This typoe of abuse ought to be worth several millions. Why can't he file criminal charges with the local DA for theft of his property? Technically doesn't the federal government have no constitutional jurisdiction if he's not involved in interstate commerce? Oh wait, I forgot, only fanatics believe in that outdated document anyway...
 
This is why we need to fight the BATF. This is why we need to join keepandbeararms.com to keep him afloat.

Rick

--snip--
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=834

ATF Rips Off Another Gun Dealer in Arizona
Confiscates 274 guns and 3,000 Form 4473's
Without making an official arrest or even filing charges

by Angel Shamaya Director, KeepAndBearArms.com November 1, 2000

"They were throwing vintage collector's items in mint condition through the air and into a trashcan 10 feet away," said Jerry Michel, licensed gun dealer, after being assaulted and pillaged by the ATF. "I felt like I was going to throw up."

And so might you before you're done reading this report.

On October 25, 2000, The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms sent approximately 30 federal and local agents in stormtrooper attire to confiscate firearms from a dealer who, according to what they told him, "did not have his papers in order." Jerry's Guns & Ammo d.b.a. Specialty Firearms of Mesa, Arizona was the latest in a long list of gun
dealers who've been paid a visit by people who, when rightly told, "You're not supposed to do that" respond by saying things like: "We're the ATF. We can do whatever we want."

--snip--

Are you pissed yet?
Can't wait for AlGore to hire 500 more of these goons?
 
So what's the problem??? Those cops were just following the orders of their King and Reichfuhrer/SS Reno.

Orders from the King and Reeve must be obeyed. J.B.
 
Republican national comittee chairman
JIm Nicholoson
PH-202-863-8500
ph-202-863-8700
email:info@rnc.org
Snail mail---310 1st street southeast
washington,DC 20003

Senate Majority leader
Trent LOtt
Ph-601-234-3774 (Has worked in past busy last I tried)
Ph 601-965-4644 (just got through on this one

Ph-202-224-6253
email:SenatorLott@Lott.senate.gov
snail mail--- Rm#487 Senate russel building
Washinton,DC 20003
(My uncle lives in MS so Ill try to get a local address if no one else can post one,
this man can stop any bill in its tracks so to speak.Bug the dirt out of him.)
His Jackson,MS address
245 east capital suite 226
Jackson,MS 39201


Speaker of the House (anti- gun facist pig)
Dennis Hassert
PH-202-225-2976
email:dhastert@hr.house.gov
Mailing: 2263 Rayburn House office building
Washington,DC 20515
(If you have his local please paste)

Take your name off of the list of americans responsible for allowing this gestapo like raids to happen call write email.
Email only lets them know its happening.
The letter lets them know its important to you,the second letter or phone call leans towrd making it important to them.
Someone should also paste USA todays email if
I dont first.
Thanks for your help Rick I certainly see this as happening to all of us if one of us.
Im a KABA member and will have him as mY ISP when available.
 
Is there a copy of the search warrant out on the net anywhere?

There seems to be a peice of information missing, such as why the ATF showed up. The story says that some of the guns taken were not listed in the search warrant, which means the search warrant must have givin a reason why some guns should have been confiscated. I would like to see a copy or the text of the search warrant so I can better understand the situtation.
 
I wonder how Bush will handle these things. It seems that the BATF is above any oversight, and the only way to stop them is to disband the agency and replace it with nothing. Of course Junior won't do that. Then he'd be accused of not "enforcing the laws already on the books." I predict the abuses will continue even after Junior is elected.

------------------
"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz
 
KABA will get the search warrant online soon.

But you are missing the point. BATF had no business wrecking his business.

Even if the BATF presence was lawful, their actions were unlawful and brutish.

I am tired of some of you making apologies for these thugs.

It is time to expose them.

Rick
 
RickD I agree. Even if he had done something wrong, the ATF acted way out of line in how they handled the situation. I've already written Congress on this and encourage everyone else to if you haven't done so already.

The same holds true for the latest Maadi-Griffin raid, which is also in Mesa AZ. The ATF raided them twice the second time showing up with no court order or search warrant. For more info click here http://www.maadigriffin.com/second.htm
 
Rick, expose wasn't the word I had in mind. The BATF and the entire federal government is a runaway train. They are out of control and they've got the states thinking they can do and get away with the same things.

I've written my anti-gun-facist congresscritters and commy-senators but lot of good that'll do.

Does this guy have a legal defence fund set up or something, either that or I'll just send him some cash?

------------------
... But as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
 
I called the local BATF phone numbers. One is a disconnnected cell phone. The other would not go through.

I then called Mesa PD "Pawn Detail" which, through Sgt. Sherwood, grudgingly admitted involvement.

I was asked where I was getting my information. I told him KABA. He said, "The only thing they got right was the date of the warrant."

I asked what part of the KABA report was incorrect. He said that I would have to contact BATF. I asked why Mesa PD was involved in the BATF raid which resulted in $300,000 worth of damage and lost stock. He said, "This is an on-going investigation of BATF. I am not permitted to comment."

I asked under what statute was a city police officer prohibited from commenting on a federal investigation. He couldn't say but he mentioned that information on the warrant was given by Mesa PD, therefore he couldn't comment.

I asked if there was anything that he could comment on. He referred me to BATF. I told him that BATF would likely decline to comment on an investigation as well, leaving me the interesting cycle of having two agencies refusing to comment. He didn't respond.

I said that since he remarked that the only thing KABA got right was the date of the warrant, that he surely did comment on the case. I wanted to know what errors KABA made. He said he couldn't comment. I told him that what he was doing was disparaging the reputation of KABA and then ducking for cover behind an official No-Comment policy. He directed me to BATF.

I then asked who I should talk to at BATF. He told me Marvin Richardson who is the Agent In Charge.

I ended the conversation with a cheerful, "Thank you for helping to violate our rights."

I heard a loud voice on the other end begin to say, "GOD--D..." which was cut short by the sound of a slamming phone receiver.

I guess I pissed him off.

Ain't it funny how these guys get torqued off when you treat them like the public servant pukes that they are?

Rick
 
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