Hey all, I am new here, but have just come back from CCW class taught by 2 very impressive ladies. The first was a criminal lawyer who spends time educating state representatives at the capitol and really knows her stuff on the use of deadly force by civilians. The second is the wife of a LEO who admittedly married into the "gun culture" ,but who eventually gave up a 24yr career with a major corp. to teach gun safety full time in a local range. She served on the state committee which formulated the curriculum and truly loves what she does. She also commands the respect of a DI on the range. Even brought some guys with me who had already taken the class from a local instructor who were very impressed with the presentation.(And they were lawyers!). Also the group was 40 strong from all incomes and lifestyles and I wager that if I dropped my wallet ten times during those 8 hours it would have been delivered back intact by any of those attending. 40 is quite a crowd to me, but they were good people. I know this is no surprise to you folks, but I wanted you to know this with all the bad news out there constantly over our heads that some good things are still going on. Heck, soccer moms taught my concealed carry class! There are dozens of classes going on every week here and our numbers are not getting smaller. This choice of being armed is a heavy burden in a way. That weapon will be a ball and chain which must affect every decision while in my possession. I just think we need people to do this right, and I know I'm one of the good guys, so it becomes almost a civic duty to me in a sense as long as I continue to practice,practice,practice and seek skill and knowledge. Anyway, just a reminder that there is some good going on out there. You got friends you ain't never met.
We are supposed to think all intelligent women hate guns
- Thread starter G-Freeman
- Start date
Let me one of the 1st to say G'day.
Remember, "front site - press"
------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
Remember, "front site - press"
------------------
"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
I really hate to say this, but I will. With all the people going concealed carry, I have to wonder. Many or most of these people don't have a great deal of experience with guns, and many probably have never shot a gun anywhere but the range. I have never shot a gun at a range, cuz there are none around where I live. Since these people shoot just at the range, how will they react when someone forces them to use their gun? I have shot guns since I was 6 or so, with my dad using .22's. I shoot a gun at least every month, if not every week or even every day. I know the guns I have(which ain't a whole lot) like the back of my hand, and have put a lot of rounds through them in various places. I have shot trees, paper, nothing, large game like deer, small game like rabbits and squirrels, and many birds. I would say I have no doubt that if a bad guy breaks into my house, I could shoot him without any question, but I can't. It has never happened and I will never know till it does. Bad guys don't look like a piece of white paper with rings that don't move or make noise, and stay at 7 yards all the time. In a house, you will have about 1-3 seconds to decide if you are gonna' put a slug in that guys chest, and kill him. I honestly don't think that most people have the heart to kill a person. I think that everyone who takes a CC class should watch a video that shows what happens when you shoot a living target with a firearm. Let me tell you, if the bad guy is comin' at you and your concience makes that trigger break at about 100 lbs, and you can't pull it, you are in some deep trouble.
------------------
Don't turn around, uh oh oh, der kommisar is in town, uh oh oh!
------------------
Don't turn around, uh oh oh, der kommisar is in town, uh oh oh!
Ed Brunner
New member
JoshD; You make a very good point and that is why I stress that mental attitude is just as important as marksmanship in a defense situation.
A person needs to clearly define and understand the situations in which he/she is willing to kill a human.
For example-I would not kill someone who was running away with my TV under his arm because at that point he would not be a threat to me or my family. On the other hand I could consider that if he broke in once he might do it again and might harm someone the next time. My point is that everybody sets up limits.
There is a lot of talk about legal repercussions if you shoot someone. I would much rather deal with legalities alive and intact than to suffer harm because of fear of the law which is supposed to protect me.
------------------
Better days to be,
Ed
A person needs to clearly define and understand the situations in which he/she is willing to kill a human.
For example-I would not kill someone who was running away with my TV under his arm because at that point he would not be a threat to me or my family. On the other hand I could consider that if he broke in once he might do it again and might harm someone the next time. My point is that everybody sets up limits.
There is a lot of talk about legal repercussions if you shoot someone. I would much rather deal with legalities alive and intact than to suffer harm because of fear of the law which is supposed to protect me.
------------------
Better days to be,
Ed
Joshd,
There are most likely some folks who will not be able to pull the trigger, or who will not be enough in control of themselves to hit the target. That is imo why training by a experienced and qualified trainer in defensive style shooting, such as John
Farnam,and many others, should be what a responsible gun carrier should strive for. The mindset is critical, Massad Ayood, in his book "the truth about self-protection", gives an overview of what a civilian should expect, including suggestions on how to prepare for the eventuallity of shooting someone. One tip I had never considered until I read the book was to establish a folder at home with the contact numbers of a lawyer that is kept on retainer(usually a small fee) and who knows about shooting defense,,,,in my area I use the one the police dept uses for its officers.(there are probably more than one, but I came to know this one and more importantly he is aware of me), also the suggestion was to put a nbr for a bailbondsmen in there as well....I took it a step further and listed alternatives in each case......I use to read quite a bit and Ive come to the conclusion that all of these gun gurus, have something that you can pick up and utilize;......fubsy.
My father did his dissertation for his doctorates in crimminal justice about an officer involved shooting were the individual who was shot died and the effects that the shooting had on the the officer, his co-workers and his family and community.....I not sure if ive still a copy anywhere, but Ill chk, the results were interesting....fubsy.
There are most likely some folks who will not be able to pull the trigger, or who will not be enough in control of themselves to hit the target. That is imo why training by a experienced and qualified trainer in defensive style shooting, such as John
Farnam,and many others, should be what a responsible gun carrier should strive for. The mindset is critical, Massad Ayood, in his book "the truth about self-protection", gives an overview of what a civilian should expect, including suggestions on how to prepare for the eventuallity of shooting someone. One tip I had never considered until I read the book was to establish a folder at home with the contact numbers of a lawyer that is kept on retainer(usually a small fee) and who knows about shooting defense,,,,in my area I use the one the police dept uses for its officers.(there are probably more than one, but I came to know this one and more importantly he is aware of me), also the suggestion was to put a nbr for a bailbondsmen in there as well....I took it a step further and listed alternatives in each case......I use to read quite a bit and Ive come to the conclusion that all of these gun gurus, have something that you can pick up and utilize;......fubsy.
My father did his dissertation for his doctorates in crimminal justice about an officer involved shooting were the individual who was shot died and the effects that the shooting had on the the officer, his co-workers and his family and community.....I not sure if ive still a copy anywhere, but Ill chk, the results were interesting....fubsy.
Josh D- I have shared some of your concerns about pure novices carrying guns. Most of the people in my class shoot a lot. I doubt that every person will actually commit to carrying. It is definitely not for everyone and some won't like it. Nobody I spoke with thought that having a permit prepared them to use a weapon in self defense. Myself, I will continue to get as much quality training as I can afford for the rest of my life. Ranges provide a safe enviornment for people to learn,practice and enjoy firearms. I'm lucky enough to get to train with some local LEO's. Like most departments, they train at a range. I hope that very few of those who are getting permits cause problems. It hasn't been an issue yet. I do know one thing and that is all these people shooting at ranges and getting permits are on your side when it comes to RKBA. And that is a good thing. Also, your video idea might be good. I've had the misfortune of witnessing an individual seconds after being shot in the chest at close range with a large calbre(he survived). I sure hope to avoid it, but after a lot of soul searching I believe I am capable if there is no alternative. All I can do is prepare as well as possible and with any luck I'll never have to find out. Ed Brunner - Survival has to be the priority, but remember that there are plenty of ways to commit a felony while carrying concealed without ever pulling the trigger.It is important to be aware of the consequences of bad decisions because felonys involving firearms carry mandatory prison sentences.
joshd,
A long time ago (BC-Before Computers<G>), I put the question to myself, "Could you really shoot someone?" I tried to be brutally honest with myself. Up to that point in time, I had a vision of "defeating a bad guy and being a hero," but I figured it wasn't as simple as that. So I tried to envsion the aftermath of a self-defense shooting in my home, after the cops & ambulances and media have left. I have blood, tissue, bone chips and bodily fluids to clean up. This forced me to face the reality, and helped me to know that I could do it-but only in defense of life. I could never shoot someone for stealing a VCR, etc. I live in a state with a "make my day" law which allows one to shoot any intruder found in one's home during the hours of darkness, even if the intruder offers no threat of any kind. I don't give a damn if the law says it's justifiable, IT'S NOT MORAL, and I WON'T do it. If said intruder turns threatening, whole new ballgame; he better hope he's up to date on his insurance.
A CCW course gives basics. Go to a good defensive school. Go to several. Get as much additional tactical and strategic knowledge as is practically possible. One can never know too much, or even enough, about this particular subject. Knowledge is power, and the mind is the primary weapon. Keep it loaded with the best ammo possible, and maybe you'll never have to resort to the gun. It's what I advise anyone who's thinking of buying a gun for self-defense, or, for that matter, even long-time gun owners who have never thought about defensive gun use until relatively recently. Decide first of all if you could do it, then prepare accordingly.
------------------
Shoot straight regards, Richard
The Shottist's Center forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=45acp45lc
A long time ago (BC-Before Computers<G>), I put the question to myself, "Could you really shoot someone?" I tried to be brutally honest with myself. Up to that point in time, I had a vision of "defeating a bad guy and being a hero," but I figured it wasn't as simple as that. So I tried to envsion the aftermath of a self-defense shooting in my home, after the cops & ambulances and media have left. I have blood, tissue, bone chips and bodily fluids to clean up. This forced me to face the reality, and helped me to know that I could do it-but only in defense of life. I could never shoot someone for stealing a VCR, etc. I live in a state with a "make my day" law which allows one to shoot any intruder found in one's home during the hours of darkness, even if the intruder offers no threat of any kind. I don't give a damn if the law says it's justifiable, IT'S NOT MORAL, and I WON'T do it. If said intruder turns threatening, whole new ballgame; he better hope he's up to date on his insurance.
A CCW course gives basics. Go to a good defensive school. Go to several. Get as much additional tactical and strategic knowledge as is practically possible. One can never know too much, or even enough, about this particular subject. Knowledge is power, and the mind is the primary weapon. Keep it loaded with the best ammo possible, and maybe you'll never have to resort to the gun. It's what I advise anyone who's thinking of buying a gun for self-defense, or, for that matter, even long-time gun owners who have never thought about defensive gun use until relatively recently. Decide first of all if you could do it, then prepare accordingly.
------------------
Shoot straight regards, Richard
The Shottist's Center forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=45acp45lc
45King,
I think you and I feel the same way. I think I will be able to shoot someone trying to kill me. I wouldn't mind the blood so much as shooting someone that didn't deserve it. I don't think IL has the same laws as your state. As far as I am concerned, if someone breaks into my house, they are asking to die. I know that if they are just stealing, snooping, etc, I will not shoot them. If they touch my guns, they will die. I wouldn't kill the guy just for takin my guns(which most are in a safe), but I wouldn't know if they were mine, or if they were his, and going to be used against me. I guess I need to pray it never happens, and buy a box or two of JHP's instead of FMJ's cuz I really don't want to kill my own people.
------------------
Don't turn around, uh oh oh, der kommisar is in town, uh oh oh!
I think you and I feel the same way. I think I will be able to shoot someone trying to kill me. I wouldn't mind the blood so much as shooting someone that didn't deserve it. I don't think IL has the same laws as your state. As far as I am concerned, if someone breaks into my house, they are asking to die. I know that if they are just stealing, snooping, etc, I will not shoot them. If they touch my guns, they will die. I wouldn't kill the guy just for takin my guns(which most are in a safe), but I wouldn't know if they were mine, or if they were his, and going to be used against me. I guess I need to pray it never happens, and buy a box or two of JHP's instead of FMJ's cuz I really don't want to kill my own people.
------------------
Don't turn around, uh oh oh, der kommisar is in town, uh oh oh!
45King, You said it better than me. Agree 100%. Fubsy makes an excellent point too about preparing for the aftermath. A lawyer just told the story of interviewing a client shortly after a defensive shooting. The woman was so shook up she couldn't remember how many children she had or all their names. That is not the mindset you want to be in when making a statement to police no matter how justified your actions were. Having a plan in place makes sense.
Well, I have about 750 notches from a little crime spree my gubt sent me on in SEA, don't have a lot of doubt personally. I've heard people say they couldn't, and heard people say they'd rather die and let their children die as well, and I don't understand that, but I responded that was their choice.
As far as intruders in my house go, if someone is inside my house at night, while I am home (opposed to me coming home to find him there), he is ABSOLUTELY a threat to myself and my family, why else would he be there, I will shoot him several times, call 911, then probably shoot him some more. It beats having to deal with him again tomorrow night, after he's been turned loose already and is now really pissed. Would I shoot someone for stealing my VCR? Absolutely. If I ever catch someone leaving my house with all the food out of my refrigerator, I'll stuff whatever money is in my wallet into his pockets and tell him if he's hungry come back and ASK next time, we can work something out. To me that is the only spot a moral question comes into play.
As far as intruders in my house go, if someone is inside my house at night, while I am home (opposed to me coming home to find him there), he is ABSOLUTELY a threat to myself and my family, why else would he be there, I will shoot him several times, call 911, then probably shoot him some more. It beats having to deal with him again tomorrow night, after he's been turned loose already and is now really pissed. Would I shoot someone for stealing my VCR? Absolutely. If I ever catch someone leaving my house with all the food out of my refrigerator, I'll stuff whatever money is in my wallet into his pockets and tell him if he's hungry come back and ASK next time, we can work something out. To me that is the only spot a moral question comes into play.
Ed Brunner
New member
LarryP.; You have the added advantage of having had your thinking clarified. You KNOW what you can and will do. You alreadt have the mental attitude. I hape you didnt put all those notches in that Mattel thing.
------------------
Better days to be,
Ed
------------------
Better days to be,
Ed
G-F--
I appreciate your post about the CCW class and the women who taught it.
Along similar lines, in my state a concealed handgun license also requires fairly extensive training, and the course I took also happened to be taught by a woman. It was a good course, and I rate the instructor highly.
BTW, another intelligent woman, my wife, also does not hate guns. While she isn't a "gun nut" like me, she perceives the foolishness of gun control at least as clearly as I do, and she has no problem with guns in the house. Interestingly, she has a number of woman friends who also own guns (usually S&W .38 revolvers). Her friends are very, very reluctant to let their gun ownership be known, maybe because their arming themselves would not be considered "feminine," or maybe because it would not be politically correct. Anyway, her friends seem relieved to find that my wife is also gun-friendly and, once they learn this, are forthcoming about the fact that they firmly believe in the importance of keeping arms for personal protection.
[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited July 13, 1999).]
I appreciate your post about the CCW class and the women who taught it.
Along similar lines, in my state a concealed handgun license also requires fairly extensive training, and the course I took also happened to be taught by a woman. It was a good course, and I rate the instructor highly.
BTW, another intelligent woman, my wife, also does not hate guns. While she isn't a "gun nut" like me, she perceives the foolishness of gun control at least as clearly as I do, and she has no problem with guns in the house. Interestingly, she has a number of woman friends who also own guns (usually S&W .38 revolvers). Her friends are very, very reluctant to let their gun ownership be known, maybe because their arming themselves would not be considered "feminine," or maybe because it would not be politically correct. Anyway, her friends seem relieved to find that my wife is also gun-friendly and, once they learn this, are forthcoming about the fact that they firmly believe in the importance of keeping arms for personal protection.
[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited July 13, 1999).]