WARNING on reloading 22LR solid bullets

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stagpanther

New member
I've posted on several parts of this forum about my recent foray into the world of 22lr shooting--I never had a 22lr gun before so I was "carried away" in my enthusiasm and went all in buying a CZ 457 and other goodies to go with it.

I also became intrigued with the idea of reloading, and started doing so using Cutting Edge's offerings which are very well made and from what I've observed precisely engineered to work very well in faster twist barrels.

My knowledge is pretty sketchy, and like others did a google and found some information that seemed to hint at lubricating the bullets--much as one would with conventional "other" 22 lr bullets. I did this with a recent test of 42 gr CURX bullets--and ended up with a squibb stuck in the bore of my new Lilja barrel. The curious thing was the bullet that lodged was at the top charge weight of the tested loads. I got the bullet out eventually but not before doing some gouge damage to the bore.

I called CE--and it appears I'm not the only one who has made the same mistake. Bottom line--DO NOT use any lubrication on solid copper bullets (at least those of CE) as that does not aid in helping performance (quite the opposite, actually) and probably results in the a cumulative drag of the bullet in the bore resulting in what happened to me and others.
 
Too bad.
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About the bullets--or me botching the barrel? In the case of the former I'll still keep developing loads using the CE bullets--just without the lube. In the case of the latter--the solid bullet became very firmly wedged and even though I used a carbon fiber rod I still managed to gouge the bore. The barrel is 21" so I think I can still have a length of 19" or so if I cut the damaged portion off. FYI--the 32 gr CURX bullets will stabilize in a conventional 22lr twist barrel--but the 42 and 50 gr bullets require much faster twist--and significantly exceed regular 22lr cartridges in COL. Cutting Edge has achieved velocities over 1500 fps with their 50 gr bullet using HS-6 (and under .5" group).
 
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I've been thinking about this, I'm wondering if the harder solid copper might be "plowing" previous softer deposits in the bore and accumulating them towards the muzzle.
 
I've been thinking about this, I'm wondering if the harder solid copper might be "plowing" previous softer deposits in the bore and accumulating them towards the muzzle.
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There was some talk in a thread a few weeks/months ago about never shooting jacketed bullet through a handgun barrel that you had just been shooting lead bullets through . Seems reasonable what you describe is exactly that .

I'm not sure I buy completely in on this theory . I do understand the concept and believe it has merit but feel there's more to the story then shooting 50rds of lead then 20rds of jacketed and your screwed ??? My bet is that it's many hundreds of rounds of lead with out cleaning or poorly fitted lead bullet depositing more lead then would be normal in the bore and then shooting jacketed bullets with out cleaning is where you run into trouble .

I recently was testing about 50 44mag lead bullet loads and the bore looked quite fouled after. All I had left to shoot the rest of the day was full throttle jacketed bullets to plink with so I fired a few through the gun and after looked at the bore . It now had a mirror like finish as if the jacketed bullets cleaned out all the lead fouling . Did they do that IDK but it sure looked like they did .
 
I've always though that reloading rim-fire rounds was a bad idea. These were designed to be disposable...

While I have several rim-fire .22's I went with the Hornet over a .22 rim-fire magnum so I could reload for it.

Tony
 
I made in error in calling these reloads--Cutting Edge supplies virgin primed brass (fairly certain it's CCI's) with the bullets.
 
There was some talk in a thread a few weeks/months ago about never shooting jacketed bullet through a handgun barrel that you had just been shooting lead bullets through . Seems reasonable what you describe is exactly that .
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A jacketed 22lr probably is not going to be that much different from a lead-only--but a solid copper is a different thing. I shot 15 cartridges of the 32 CURX's through the CZ barrel today--two of the groups were at 16 fps SD which isn't bad--but the RWS R 50 turned in sub 10 fps SD's consistently. Consistency is everything with the 22lr, even more so than with larger cartridges I suspect since tolerances are so small. The loads I tested were averaging around 1700 fps, whereas the R 50 was moving at a more sedate 1,050 ish (though they are 40 gr)
 
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A jacketed 22lr probably is not going to be that much different from a lead-only--but a solid copper is a different thing.
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I believe the theory is the softer lead fouling in the bore is smashed into the pits and valleys of the metal inside the bore by the much harder jacketed bullet . Resulting in the narrowing of the bore diameter because it's smashing the lead into the walls of the bore rather then pushing it out . A hard copper jacket although I agree is not the same as a solid . I think a jacketed bullet would act/present more like a solid then it would pure lead .

Or am I misunderstanding , did you shoot lead then solid copper or only solids ?
 
Or am I misunderstanding , did you shoot lead then solid copper or only solids ?
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Jacketed 22lr bullets generally have a very thin copper jacket--not really comparable to larger caliber bullets, in other words the compression of the bullet into the grooves and bore will be similar to an all-lead bullet. A solid copper bullet will not have as much "give." The CURX is incidentally somewhere around .222 in width at the drive band and about .220 diameter as I measured it. It's pure conjecture on my part--but I suspect the deeper grooves in the CZ barrel will generally do better with lead bullets--and the shallower, faster twist rifling of barrels like the Lilja will do better with solids like the CURX. Don't have the data to prove it though.
 
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We are clearly talking past each other haha . I'm not saying 22lr jacketed anything , only using jacketed bullets in larger caliber as an example of what the solids you are using are like .

Meaning for example if I said when shooting 357mag . Don't shoot solids copper bullets after shooting lead bullets . I view in this context both solids and jacketed bullets are more similar and can be interchanged in the sentence and pure lead or copper plated bullets being the same and interchangeable

Because jacketed bullets are and or act more like solid bullets and lead bullets are and or act more like thinly copper plated bullets . In the context of this thread and what I've been trying to say ( not very well lol ) these two sentences below are saying the same thing .

Don't shoot jacketed bullets after pure lead bullets

Don't shoot solid copper bullets after shooting very thin copper jacket 22lr bullets .

If I keep writing I think I'm going to start confusing my self :D
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We are clearly talking past each other haha . I'm not saying 22lr jacketed anything , only using jacketed bullets in larger caliber as an example of what the solids you are using are like .

Meaning for example if I said when shooting 357mag . Don't shoot solids copper bullets after shooting lead bullets . I view in this context both solids and jacketed bullets are more similar and can be interchanged in the sentence and pure lead or copper plated bullets being the same and interchangeable

Because jacketed bullets are and or act more like solid bullets and lead bullets are and or act more like thinly copper plated bullets . In the context of this thread and what I've been trying to say ( not very well lol ) these two sentences below are saying the same thing .

Don't shoot jacketed bullets after pure lead bullets

Don't shoot solid copper bullets after shooting very thin copper jacket 22lr bullets .

If I keep writing I think I'm going to start confusing my self
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I don't have enough experience with the 22lr to definitely say that using a jacketed bullet after just lead IN A 22LR would make all that much difference (I kinda doubt it) but a solid copper is a different approach--a different diameter, a different bearing surface and a harder material profile. I think it definitely makes a difference if lubricating the copper bullet--and this is Cutting Edge's view as well.

Because copper is harder than lead and has a greater tensile strength--I merely conjectured that if a bore were significantly fouled with lead the copper bullet could strip it away as it passed over it.

I've shot a couple of hundred bullets in one session with the 22lr rifle and have noticed very little fouling except in the immediate throat ahead of the chamber. The barrel never seems to get hot, either.
 
stagpanther said:
I made in error in calling these reloads--Cutting Edge supplies virgin primed brass (fairly certain it's CCI's) with the bullets.
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Interesting but it's still less trouble to load Hornet rounds... Also what's the purpose of solid copper bullets in a .22 rim-fire? Do you live in an area where lead bullets are banned for hunting?

Tony
 
Interesting but it's still less trouble to load Hornet rounds... Also what's the purpose of solid copper bullets in a .22 rim-fire? Do you live in an area where lead bullets are banned for hunting?
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It's actually quite easy to load in cases that are pre-primed--can be done even without dies (which is what I've been doing). Why?;)
 
Funny video. It's not worth the cost to me but I can see how others might think it's worthwhile...
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It's really in its infancy, though CE has come up with some good loads. As Bart observed, if they can get them down to .5 MOA or under consistently @ 50 yds--that would be a pretty significant development. They go fast too--so I could seem them being a real challenge to the zippier hmr's (until they start making bullets for them as well). I think there will be a "shaking out" period while the optimal set up to handle these bullets well can really make a difference, already I can see that finding a consistent load is not an easy thing with such tight and small tolerances. But if you are the compulsive type who likes to pursue the "holy grail" load--it sure is a whole lot of fun. Somewhere out there the holy grail load awaits to be discovered.:D
 
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Metal God said:
I fired a few through the gun and after looked at the bore . It now had a mirror like finish as if the jacketed bullets cleaned out all the lead fouling . Did they do that IDK but it sure looked like they did .
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That mirror-like surface is lead glaze burnished into the bore. If you run a bare bore brush through, the mirror becomes dull from scuffing the lead.

Allan Jones recommends against shooting jacketed bullets into a leaded bore (see the end of this article under "A big no-no"). He said he's seen barrels bulged by the practice. As you might imagine, it's a little like shooting into a barrel coated with a highly viscous grease. Pressure goes up.
 
Very interesting article unclenick. I assumed that most jacketed 22lr bullets the jacket is more of a thin "spray-on afterthought" for a bullet that otherwise functions much like an unjacketed all lead bullet.

Interesting the key role between groove and throat diameter in determining effectiveness in gas seal--even the charge size and type--when using lead bullets. I was already leaning towards having two separate barrels for the two types of bullets I use in the 22lr, reading this pretty much cinches it.
 
All I know about reloading 22lr is a buddy of mine did it, and his AHA moment was powder coating the bullets. Made a huge difference.
 
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