Wanted: Rough Hierarchy of Scopes

B

bailey bud

New member
What is a rough hierarchy of scopes?

I know there's a lot of variety with some manufacturers - but where do different companies typically fit in?

I've drafted a rough hierarchy - but don't know all that much about scopes:
(from low to high) . I don't really have a rational/basis for this sort - and am open for correction.

Tasco
Simmons
Bushnell
Burris
Redfield
Weaver
Nikon
Leupold
Swarovski

Question is - do I have it "about right?"
 
Yep, Burris is a big step up from the ones it's listed with. Vortex should be in there with Nikon and Leupold too. Schmidt and Bender and US Optics should also be on there near the top, as well as Nightforce being only slightly behind them. What about Zeiss?
 
Sightron should be in there too, maybe near weaver or Burris.

Probably better to express it as tiers, since some are too close to call and opinions differ.
 
Best

Marksman:
1. Zeiss-Hensoldt
2. S&B
3. Leupold
4. US Optics/Nightforce

Battle:

Trijicon

Hunting

1. Swarovski-Austrian
2. Zeiss_German
3. S&B
4. Zeiss/Swarovski US made
5. Leupold
6. Trijicon

Thats one mans opinion based on being in the biz. I personally would own nothing less than the last one on each list, unless it is a vintage Ajax or Kahles or Unertal :)


WildgoodglassishappyglassAlaska ™©2002-2011
 
I disagree with the other posters here. Burris belongs below Tasco, not up with Nikon and Leupold. Their warranty is crap, and I've seen more POS Burris scopes than anything else (and Bushnell really gives them a run for their money, in that department). Even dirt cheap Tascos are generally more reliable scopes than what Burris puts out, even if the optics are sub-par.

My "ideal" list would be something like WildAlaska's, but we can't put $4k scopes on everything. ;)
 
+1 FrankenMauser about Burris

B1911- Maybe the SII's but the SIII's... no way!! I use one for 1000 yard F TR matches and the quality of the glass is as good if not a smidge better (IMO) than my buddie's Nightforce, especially at high magnification. It's also way better than my Leupold VX-III LR in terms of optics & tracking. Seriously... Sightron's may not have brand name recognition but they are helluva good scopes!
 
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There are too many brands to really count. I can't think of a single European brand that is of poor quality. Falcon optics is probably the "lowest quality" of the bunch, but they use Asian components assembled in the UK and are a new company trying to break into a competitive price point on the market.

American scopes, truly made in the USA, are generally of high quality as well. USO, Nightforce, Leupold, and some Burris.

Asian scopes run the entire gammut. This is where you have a real quality difference between Nikon and Tasco. A lot of "american" brands like Burris have Asian factories that put out great scopes, or contract with Light Optic Works of Japan like Bushnell (their Elite series) or Weaver to manufacture quality scopes. Generally "made in Japan" is a sign of good quality, so long as it is recent manufacture. The Phillipines puts out a good product too, and Thailand has put out good scopes in the past.

China is weird, especially comparing red China with Taiwan. There are some really decent scopes coming out of red China now, but I can't figure out a way to identify the company or factory that is doing the work. So I don't recommend Chinese scopes because of that.

It is an interesting problem, because a lot of brands just slap their name on a scope spec'd to a foreign factory, like Vortex, and as long as the quality control is good they build a good reputation.

Jimro
 
What is a rough hierarchy of scopes?
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I don't think you can go strictly by brand name. Many brands have such a wide variety in quality within their different models.

Some of the high end Nikons are very nice, not so much with the low end.

Leupold has a lot going for them, good quality, warranty, made in the USA, but over priced on the high end stuff.

I'm impressed with the new zero stop Nightforce scopes, S&B is nice also.

The SWFA 10X is one of the best bang for the buck scopes on the market.
 
I think Wildalaska is pretty close.

Some of the other scopes such as the new Redfield's, some of the Nikons, etc. ain't bad for the money, but if you consider yourself a serious shooter you really should find a way to get a quality scope. If I couldn't afford a Leupold, I might suggest a Redfield until I could save up the money for a proper scope.
 
I think this is a lot less relevant than it used to be. Why?

Because many of the name brand manufacturers in the list actually outsource the manufacture of the product to the same facility somewhere else then slap a brand-name sticker on the product. As an example let me quote a pair of binoculars I bought a couple of years ago. The names aren't included to protect the innocent (or guilty) depending on your interpretation of the information.

I was looking for an 8X40, or close binocular & did the homework, but was surprised to see the apparently identical glass sold under several names! There was the "well-known outdoor store brand" for $199.95, the "premium U.S. manufacturer" brand for $395, and the "High end Import from Germany" brand for almost $900.00:eek:

Ok, so there are knock offs I agree but when I went to actually examine the product & put it through it's paces they were all 100% identical. Not just in good features but in optical construction & minor optical defects as well. When I looked closely for detail information all 3 had a discreetly engraved place that said the same thing "Made in China":rolleyes:

I bought the store brand & they are good quality glasses & continue to work perfectly several years later. I learned 2 things from this. First "brand name" doesn't mean what it used to. Second not everything from China is garbage so you have to examine the actual product.
 
First "brand name" doesn't mean what it used to. Second not everything from China is garbage so you have to examine the actual product.
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You hit the nail on the head when it comes to optics (and alot of other products as well) once upon a time when you bought brand X it was made by brand X and each model in that brand were pretty close to being of the same quality. Now brand X has may have more than one factory or a different factory who bid the job cheaper build the scope this year and most scope makers even some high end makers don't make there own lens.
 
Almost every optics maker buys their glass from outside suppliers and have done so for decades. Just because it says "Made in China" on 3 different scopes/binoculars does not mean it is the same glass. It may have been made in the same country, even the same building, but optics makers contract for different specs depending on what they want.

There are exceptions, sometimes cheaper optics prove to work just as well as more expnsive optics, but price is still a pretty good indication of quality. You just have to decide how much quality you are willing to pay for.
 
This is a hard task to accomplish if limited to manufacturer, when product lines aren't compared.
Some companies put out crap AND good items.
Bushnell: a Bushnell Sportsman scope is not going to have the same quality as an Elite 6500 tactical model.
Leupold: VX1s are not nearly the scopes that the Mk4 models are
Burris: Timberlines are not nearly the scopes that Black Diamond or EuroDiamonds are.
Vortex: Crossfires are not nearly as good as Vortex Razors
Sightron: S1s with multi coating aren't nearly as nice as fully multicoated SIIIs or SII Big Skys.
Nikon: Prostaffs aren't nearly as good as a Monarch X or Monarch Tactical
Weaver: I wouldn't put a newer 40/44 up against a Super Slam, or even a V or T series.

There are some companies that just don't make much of anything of quality anymore. Simmons and Tasco being two examples, where even their best scopes are low/middle tier, and the same model name may be built or sourced to several factories or even undergo complete design changes. Yet in the past, both companies built good glass. I still have a 20 year old Tasco made in Taiwan. It's as a bright as a 3 year old Nikon prostaff. I recently sold an 10-15 year old original Aetec, made in the Philippines. It was a a GREAT scope. Yet the current Aetecs leave much to be desired.
 
Just because it says "Made in China" on 3 different scopes/binoculars does not mean it is the same glass.
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You're right it doesn't.
What does make it the same is the identical performance, including the exact same flaws.
 
Opticstalk.com has been doing this for the last few years.
google opticstalk 2011 riflescope rating scale
You can see their results and there are some people on there that know *a little* about optics.
WARNING: If you still think Leupold is a top tier manufacturer in the optics industry, don't go to the rating scale I mentioned....you won't like the results.
I am amazed at the Burris bashers....their Fullfield II scopes are fantastic values and have lived a rough life on top of my 6.5lb 300WSM.

A well-known and opinionated poster on this forum once offered to trade me 'Bushnell for Leupold, anytime'...after I offered a pallet of Leupold Rifleman in exchange for a pallet full of Bushnell 6500's, I never heard back from him.

Thinking-I'd-Think-Before-I-type-Man
 
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I couldn't find the 2011 ratings but did find the ratings for 2009. It is interesting and based on the criteria they used I wouldn't disagree. I do disagree with the criteria they are using to evaluate scopes. They rate a scope 51% on optical quality and only 15% on durability and 15% on specs. The other 19% is based on special features and warranty.

I happen to like Leupold scopes, but have never claimed they had the greatest glass. It is good enough on the VX-2 and VX-3 lines for my purposes. Either will let me see clearly long past legal shooting times have past. The glass on some Nikon and Burris scopes I've used is at least as good at half the price.

It is the specs, durability and warranty that keep me loyal to Leupold. Other scopes, some costing less have equal or better glass, but buying a scope based on that feature alone is like buying a car only because it is faster than another car. It is like arguing that your car is better than mine because yours will run 120mph and mine will only reach 100....While we are both driving on a road with a 70 mph speed limit.

Leupold offers features not offered on any other line of scopes. In equal magnifications they tend to be about 4-5 oz lighter and 2" or so shorter. The eye relief is sometimes double that offered by the competition. These are all features that are more important to me than slightly better glass that I cannot even take advantage of. Their reputation for toughness and durability is unsurpassed, and if a problem does arise their customer service is second to none.
 
Opticstalk.com has been doing this for the last few years.
google opticstalk 2011 riflescope rating scale
You can see their results and there are some people on there that know *a little* about optics.
WARNING: If you still think Leupold is a top tier manufacturer in the optics industry, don't go to the rating scale I mentioned....you won't like the results.
Click to expand...

I Googled it just like you suggested and only came up with an 09 rating scale nothing for 2010 or 11, and Leupold fell exactly where I thought it should. Right in the middle with the VX3/III scopes. I'll post how they list them, but I'll add in some numbers as I need to take out some spacing.

The scale below was formed by SWFA sales staff, customer service, pro-staff and owners using personal experience, customer input and facts supplied by the manufacturers. The ranking system is based on the following criteria.

51% Optical Quality - How bright and clear the scope is.
15% Specifications - Field of view, eye relief, weight, adjustment travel, etc.
15% Durability - How do they with stand the test of time.
12% Special Features & Options - Proprietary items (reticles, design, turrets), Zoom ratio.
7% Warranty & Customer Service - How good are they.

In order to maintain the scale's simplicity we are not listing every single manufacture and only major manufactures will have several of their brands listed. This scale also does not have discontinued brands or products like the old U.S.A. made Redfields, Japan Tasco or Japan Simmons Aetec. This scale is heavily weighted toward HUNTING as being the application the scope will be used for.

This scale will be kept current with changes that the manufacturers are making that affect their rank. Many of the lower end companies have been bought and sold a lot recently and while the names have stayed the same......the product has not.

2009 Riflescope Rating Scale
10. Leica ER, Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Victory

09. Kahles C - CL & CSX, Premier Reticle, Schmidt & Bender

08. Kahles KX, U.S. Optics, Swarovski PH & American Lightweight

07. Bushnell Elite 6500, Leupold VX-7, Nightforce NXS, IOR Valdada, Vortex Razor

06. Bushnell Elite 4200, Leupold VX-3, Nikon Monarch & Monarch X, Zeiss Conquest

05. Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L, Meopta, Nikon Monarch Gold & Titanium, Sightron SIII & S2 Big Sky, Vortex Viper

04. Burris Black Diamond Signature Select XTR & Euro Diamond, Pentax Lightseeker, Trijicon Accupoint, Weaver Grand Slam

03. Bushnell Elite 3200, Leupold VX-II, Millet Tactical/Buck Gold, Nikko Stirling, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Vortex Crossfire & Diamondback, Super Sniper Fixed

02. Burris Fullfield II & Timberline, Leupold Rifleman & VX-I, Leatherwood, Mueller, Nikon ProStaff, Simmons

01. Barska, Sightmark, Swift, Truglo

00. BSA, Tasco, Yukon

-1. ATN, Leapers, NcStar
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I'm a self admitted Leupold slut, but at least I'm realistic about it. Leupolds don't have the best glass, but it is good glass that I find accepable to my hunting conditions. This rating show that but I rate my scopes a little bit different.

Some of the other stuff I look for in a scope. I like a large eye box and eye relief, Leupols relief might change with power adjustments but it has the most forgiving eye box and I've yet to be smacked in the eye by recoil using a Leupold scope (can't say that about other brands). The VX-II and up have always had repeatable adjustment for me anyway. The are usually lighter than anyother hunting scope on the market and for me have been super durable. They provide an adequate field of view across the power range, and do it with smaller objecives than most other scopes that allow me to mount the scope lower. Price point I usually stick to with my hunting scopes is around $300-500 and they fit right in there.

I've only sent one scope I got new back for repair (broken reticle). Leupold scopes I buy used all go back and get a free checkup/repair. I've found Leupold's customer service to be far above the rest and very fast on repairs and replacements. I've had problems with Nikon and Burris on warranty repairs, I've heard bad things recently about Bushnell's "Bullet Proof Warranty" on their Elite line.

I have no illusions that they are a top tier rifle scope, but they are IMO a reasonably priced quality hunting optic that gets the job done time and time again. BTW I totally agree where they ranked the FFII, I've hated every Burris FFII scope I've owned in the end. I feel the same way about Nikon Pro Staff scopes as well.
 
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