Wanna get disgusted on several counts?

B

blackmind

Moderator
This story should disgust you for several reasons.

First: a kid who is charged with using a stun gun in the death of a robbery victim was ever out on bail in the first place.

Second: When the cops locate the suspect, one fires all 15 rounds in his gun, and the other fires 7 rounds. This is in New York City! WHERE THE HELL DO THEY THINK ALL THE MISSES ARE GONNA GO?! :mad:

Maybe the problem is with cops not being selected so much from shooters, being that this is NYC and they are nowhere to be found. Maybe all these urbanite cops know of using their guns is, "Empty the gun into the suspect (or the vicinity) in the hope that that'll be enough to keep you safe from him if he's a threat." Maybe since they are not people who live and breathe "tacticality," they just default to some ultra-simplistic training suggestion and fire blindly until slide-lock, because they don't know any better.

Thoughts?


-blackmind
 
I wonder if anyone could produce figures on police shootings in terms of #rnds./fired vs. hit ratio and cross refference with a map showing which are "pro-gun" states and which are "anti-gun" states (or cities).
Living outside D.C. I here of shootouts and how bullets"riddled a local neighborhood, in D.C. but on my side of the river fairfax, VA. There doesn't seem to be as much. My girlfriend works for FCPD and she tells me about some of the shootings and the story usually goes " The officer fired one or two shots...." and the suspect was hit, captured, etc... But it seems that NYC, California, you are always heaing about 38 shots fired.. four officers unload their magazines at the suspect with no one injured but some walls or car doors. Interesting...
 
1. Need I say anything more about why I would not / do not live in NYC or any of its surrounding suburbs (read: within 250 miles).

2. What do you expect when the recruits come from a school system area that is and has been for decades, ardently left wing liberal, bleeding heart, anti-firearm, anti-hunting?

3. Twenty-two rounds = cheek wound / leg wound: fertile ground for an experienced firearms instructor.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Pretty bad, 22 shots fired and only wounded the guy...

Lt's probabley middle age and out of shape, not shot much in quite a while.

Pretty revolting. The PDs are not able to shoot much now because of the cost to the taxpayer, so if they are to keep in a proficient mode they pay for the bullets themselves or only qualify 2 times a year.

The fact that the Juv'i is out does not surprise me. That has been the general rule for a long time. Why we have so much crime with the youngster's.
Handled with kid gloves. That is why as a citizen you need to be alert and take care of yourself. No one is going to do it for you.

Harley
 
my first job after getting married was to paint apartments in a housing project between tenants. They are now called the crack stacks.

one day i had a work order to spackle and paint the lobby.

I walked up and looked and there were bullet holes everywhere. i counted 16 holes, then the elevator opened up. the inside of the elevator was riddled. another 26 holes.

I walked down and asked the supe "how many dead?" He said "none, not even any hits." Two cops were waiting in the lobby to ask a felons mom about sons whereabouts. Said felon was in the elevator, door opens and every one draws and shoots till slide lock.

two cops both with 12 + 1 S&W's and the felon with a hot Glock, 42 shots no hit at lobby range. cops and felon then proceded to fight like animals until the felon was slowed by three baton hits to his tender bits.

building Video shows a lobby full of people, also showed both cops shooting heads turned, off hand up to block the bullets jerking the guns all over.

Video also shows bigger cop pulling baton and grabbing leg of felon and then aiming at the felons crotch and swinging real hard. On third swing, felon just quits fighting, big stain starts on pants.

bad shooting on behalf of some cops just happens. of course, we also had a woman cop here kill a woman who had just shot her partner, 10 shots nine hits, four in the torso, one in the neck, four in the head.
 
After three to the head, I can't figure out how there was even a head there to take a fourth hit! "You GO, girl!" :p


-blackmind
 
Trusted, but unverified information...

The Los Angeles Police Department switched sidearms in about 1992 or so. They went from six round revolver, altered to fire double action only, to the Beretta 92, with a fifteen (sixteen?) round capacity.

Since that time, the annual shootings seem consistent with past years. They shoot about the same number of malefactors about the same number of times as they always have. But they fire three times as many rounds in the process.

The information comes from an individual with training connections. I can't point to any released information for verification, but I trust this person.

In most agencies, 'guns and shooting' are touchy subjects amoungst the 'officials'. Shootings routinely generate lawsuits, and in the mystic world of the political manager's mindset, blaming the guns is the key to solving the problems. One common tenet of faith is teaching too much marksmanship makes officers trigger happy. The opposite is true, but reality and management simply do not mix much.
 
You might be interested in knowing that the assassin who killed Archduke Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo in 1914 had not fired a gun before. As I understand how the event developed, when their car approached where he was waiting, he jumped on the running board, pointed his pistol at them, turned his head and fired two round. Both victims were mortally wounded. The pistol was a .32 auto. The shooter died in prison (was not executed).

As a matter of curiosity, I might add that Pope John Paul was shot with a .32 auto and Ghandi was killed with a .32 auto.
 
Read somewhere

That cops average 11% hit ratio, IIRC...Bad guys actually do better at 13%, but supposedly that's because they initiate fire from cover in many instances. This was supposed to be one of the reasons that LEOs went from revolvers to semi-autos...

Kinda scary when you think about it,..where do all those stray rounds go?...And, are the LEOs even aware of innocent bystanders? I would think, in a shooting situations, mostly they get a serious case of "tunnel vision".
 
So guntotin_fool, you saw this building video and there was even enough resolution for you to see a big stain on the guys pants, huh? The rest of your story this true also?? You don't have to be a CSI to sift through this evidence.:D
 
The last figures I've seen for the NYPD was IIRC for 2002, they hit their target in actual shootouts 10% of the time . In the past with 38s it was 20% !!!
 
I know some of the people in Training Division in LAPD

Archie and what you are saying is quite right.

Policy and training go hand in hand. The more attention you pay to shooting the more aggressive to shoot, so it is a catch 22 I guess...

One of the more Infamous LAPD shooting's was just as Chief Davis left and Chief Gates took over the reins. Ms Love was hit many times and all she had was a knife, which she released at the officers... Expired on the scene. It was not pretty, but it was within policy.

Stratus. Yep:D The Kid is a goat.

Harley
 
Most the antigun laws and so on in New York were the results of either Rudy Giuliani, pride of the conservative movement and potential candidate for the next Republican president, or Michael Bloomberg who is much in the same vain. Its typical for conservatives to hate firearms it seems.

Police are well known for firing alot of shots in a shoot out. They have about a 10-15% hit rate nowadays and most of those shots are at less than 15 feet. Its rather tragic.
 
Gulianni and Bloomberg are certainly no frineds of freedom but 95% of the laws regarding guns in NYC predate them.

I find it funny that the cops in NY are the only ones allowed magazines of more than 10 rounds... It is a good thing they have them because it seems to take 10+ rounds for them to get one hit. I wonder what the hit rate is for lawful citizens? For NYC spray and pray is the order of the day. In the Dialo shooting you had four officers blazing away at a man with a wallet. Supposedly the first shot fired was from an officer who tripped going up the stairs to the building where the suspect was. Perhaps having his finger off the triger would have been a good idea... The remaining officers went on autopilot and just fired away. It seems the combination of high capacity and rapid reloadability (not present in a revolver) gives out NY public servents the attitude to fire until the slide locks back and then figure out what happenned while they reload.
 
I have lived my whole life in NY, its been largely anti-gun since the 1970's as far as I am involved, and probably way before that. This is a liberal, democrat city from way back, anti everything that most Americans stand for. It stands to reason with the huge immigrant population, more welfare and freebies, less for the bad sucessful Americans that have lived here from years.:mad: I moved out of the city in 1986 and the laws on Long Island, while less stringent, are still repressive. In a few years when my son enters college, I'll probably move to a truly free state like Maine. Its a dream, anyway......
 
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