Walther PPK & clones question

2

2ndsojourn

New member
High on my soon to buy list is a PPK-type 380. I'm not spending the money on an original PPK so I'm considering a look-alike. I'm not hearing good things about the Interarms mfg'd ones. S&W / Walther would be OK, but I really like the idea of the Sig P230 with the de-cocker only. The newer P232's look kinda cheap to me. The Bersa is a good buy for the money but I prefer the no safety Sig.

Any first hand recommendations or no-go's?
 
The P230/P232 is NOT a clone of the PP-series, it's a different pistol in the same caliber with a similar operating system. It's also closer in size to the PP than the PPK. FWIW this is also true of the Bersas.

Another PP copy with a good reputation is the Astra Constable, and like the Bersa, it has a handy external slide stop lever. The PP-series and the P230/P232 lack this feature, and as much as I like these pistols, I still find this annoying.

A less common contender is the Beretta 90, although AFAIK it came in .32 ACP only.

Speaking of which, if you're willing to entertain a pistol in 9x18mm Makarov or .32 ACP rather than .380, this opens up a whole slew of Eastern Bloc PP copies (Polish P-64 and P-83, FÉG PA-63, CZ 50 & 70, etc.) along with comparatively inexpensive Euro police surplus Walther PP's, which are almost invariably .32 ACP / 7.65mm.

FWIW the Walthers were much more commonly made in .32 for European use and early American import; most production didn't shift to .380 until after 1968 GCA cut off most of the Euro imports and the pistols began to be pushed off the Euro police market by increasing adoption of full-size 9mm autos, prompting Walther (and Manurhin) to increasingly focus on the American commercial market. To this day, many Walther purists still regard .32/7.65 as the "proper" PP/PPK caliber, and commonly insist that the pistols are more reliable in .32 than .380.
 
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As for the operation of two types mentioned, my new Sig 232 feeds/shoots/extracts etc all ammo. Have not tried more than a few jhp rounds.
Only one FTFeed in over 200 rds., though maybe not quite "broken in", and is near-mint condition.

The issue is with my "Made In W. Germany" .380 PPK, exc. condition. Using the original mag, among five brands of fmj ammo, only One functions almost perfectly. The others have very constant FTFeed: common Rem., Geco, Aquila, "TN ***". This was a major surprise.

But with a new (in package) stainless mag. ordered from E-Bay, although only forty rounds of each type tested, operation is much better.
As for the Polish P-64 three friends "carry" it, and swear by it. For me it is not enjoyable to shoot, though I tried to accept the very heavy DA pull (original springs) and recoil. One of these guys -all very experienced shooters- also has the Russian Mak in typical 9x18 chambering. He has no complaints about it.
 
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A couple to google are the FEG SMC 380 and Daewoo DH 380.

The Sig is an excellent pistol, but were I you, I'd opt for the P232. It's the same gun but with some improvements, mainly an internal firing pin safety. There are other differences but the others are mostly cosmetic. The P232 is available only in .380. The P230 is available in .32acp, .380 and rarely a 9mm Ultra, just as the Walther PP.
 
Just FWIW, the PP and PPK were designed as police pistols (PP stands for Polizei Pistole) and the German police caliber was 7.65 Browning or what we call .32 ACP.

The 9mm Kurz was an afterthought up to the point where the .32 could no longer be imported into the U.S. Generally, cartridges with round-nose FMJ bullets work OK. Any other shape/type of bullet is problematical.

Also, German ammo is usually a bit "hotter" than American, so German will often prove more reliable in German/French made guns.

Jim
 
I have quite a few Walthers. PP, PPK and a PPK/s in .22. All are German except one French gun. All my other Walthers are in .32. I think it's at it's best in that caliber.

That said, if I want to carry a compact auto, I carry a stainless and alloy P232. It's a better "carry" gun. More modern and, I think, more reliable.

If you want a Walther, that's fine...trust me...I understand. But, it's generally not the best carry gun in my opinion.
 
Don't the sigs typically cost more than a Walther PPK? The BERSA is an excellent firearm at a reasonable price, can't go wrong there.
 
I have a interarms PPK/s Never been one problem unlike the poorly made S&W

Now Bersa I have 2 Thunders and my daughter has one also . Bersa is not a Clone of the PPK or PPK/s Nothing will interchange .

Bersa has way better DA/SA trigger . Little thicker in grip so doesn't smack hand like Walthers does. Easier slide to rack and easy take down lever. PPK requires pulling down trigger guard to remove slide.
Accuracy both very accurate Bersa Thunder has better sights. PPK wins in better over all finish But Bersa approx 1/2 price of the Walthers.

Come visit my home board join and talk to members about their Bersa.

http://bersachat.com over 7000 members and growing every day.
 
I have an Accu-Tek AT-380 I just can't stand to shoot. It suffers from hammer slap and the magazine releasing when shooting. I used to pocket carry but no longer since I got my beloved G42. It is better than no gun but only by a little.

Not saying all of that brand are bad, just that model.
 
I certainly wouldn't call the P232 a clone of the PPK. I define a clone as an exact copy.

I do agree they look similar, but there are many differences.
Here's an interesting YouTube link that compares 4 of these similar looking pistols.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tYL6VXm1mo

Incidentally, if I was looking for this style gun (and I do watch for one that may pop up) I'd be looking for a Sig.
 
If I could interject a question about S&W made PPKs, Smith & Wesson has never had a reputation for making bad guns, mostly. Why the bad reputation for the PPKs and PPK/Ss they make? In fact, do they not make them for Walther now?

Highly ironic, exporting Walther pistols to Germany from the United States.
 
I have had 4 PPK/PPK/S in my life. The first was a German PPK and as I recall, I had no problems with it. The next one was an Interarms PPK/S. No problems with that one either.

The next two are Smith and Wesson PPK and I bought them several years apart. One was purchased about 4 months ago and the other one about 4 years ago. Both are stainless steel.

My daughter wanted one and I gave one to her and replaced it with the one I have now. Ball or JHP, both guns run fine.

The fit and finish on my two Smith and Wesson guns is every bit equal to German craftsmanship.

The Smith and Wesson guns have a better trigger ( smoother) than my German guns.

I have heard from more than one source the early Smith and Wesson guns were not as reliable as the German guns but the quality of my guns tells me that Smith and Wesson got the message and improved things.

The ones in the last 5 years or so seem to be trouble free.
 
I've owned two PPKs, still have one, and also own a Sig 232, a relative owns a Bersa. The Sig is a fine weapon, but I'd take a hard look at a Bersa .380. I've been impressed every time I've shot it, especially considering the price.

As far as the PPK, I've formed the opinion that they're generally most reliable in .32 Auto, my .380 version jammed a little too frequently for my tastes and is just too heavy for my tastes. The Bersa, on the other hand, has been reliable and is a lot ligher. I'll probably pick one up soon, the only change I'll make will be 8 round Mec-Gar mags.
 
Thanks for all the info. It's not important to me that my choice be an exact clone. My overall preference is for a real German (or French) PPK but I doubt I'll find one for the money I want to spend, but I'll keep looking. My next choice is the Sig but I'll take a second look at the Bersa and now the FEG. And I guess the S&W 'clone' isn't ruled out yet either. Decisions, decisions.
Thanks.
 
I've heard very good things about the Bersa. But I would still prefer the Sig even for the extra money. Here's my logic (flawed though it may be):

For me, Sig is a known quality. Most of the information on the Bersa's has been good, but there are always a few outliers.

Sig will always have a higher resale value (don't know why I'd worry about that, since it's only important if I ever actually wanted to sell a gun:D).

Most importantly, and what really tips the scale, all my other pistols with safeties require the safety to be pushed down, not up, to be ready to fire. I don't like the idea of throwing in such a change to my battery of arms.
 
PPKS

I will tell you that a PPK or PPKS is not a good range gun for more than 50 shots for me because the web of my hand starts to hurt. The accuracy is great and better than my other .380's, Glock 42, Walther PK380, Browning 1955 and Rem 51. Practice leaves my hand hurting for more than 40 shots but it feels and shoots so great. My brother complains his Beretta 84 hurts also. I think all direct blowbacks will hurt and maybe the .32's are easier on the hand. Mine is a S&W model and I have considered a PP from time to time but hardly ever see on at any guns shows.
 
Most importantly, and what really tips the scale, all my other pistols with safeties require the safety to be pushed down, not up, to be ready to fire. I don't like the idea of throwing in such a change to my battery of arms.
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Your logic seems sound to me. Most people get around it by only using the safety administratively or not at all. I used the safety as a decocker only when I carried my PPK, so it never came into play. As I said, I own all three of these pistols, P232, PPK and just bought a new Bersa last night for $225 shipped. By a wide margin, my preference is for the Sig and the Bersa, the DA pull on a PPK is TERRIBLE and the other two are more reliable, anyway. My current PPK is the factory engraved model, very pretty...might order a display box and hang it on the wall.

I have a feeling my new Bersa is going to end up with my wife. She wants something lighter and her P232 is the stainless version, it's just too heavy for the cailber. I advise going with the alloy model if you're going to carry it. She's also more comfortable with a safety, since she carries it in her purse. The magazine disconnect is neither a plus or minus. As I recall, he Bersa can be loaded with the safety engaged. She's going to like that feature the best, I believe.

I took her out a while back and had her shoot an M&P Compact in 9mm, Sig 232, Bersa (borrowed at the time), S&W 638, S&W Model 27 (for fun), Ruger LCR and a CZ-75B with a single action conversion by CZ customs. She actually preferred the Bersa, go figure, but we had already purchased the Sig! I preference is for the CZ with the 3 lbs single action conversion and 19 round mags.

Can't argue that the Sig has a higher resale. It also come standard with night sights. It's a sweet shooter, too, although, accuracy was pretty excellent with all three of these pistols. Anyway, you can't go wrong with a P232 and for the price, you might as well pick up a Bersa, too...they're dirt cheap.

Anyway, I'm off to order some 8 round Mec-Gar mags for the Thunder...nice to have that extra +1.
 
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If I could interject a question about S&W made PPKs, Smith & Wesson has never had a reputation for making bad guns, mostly. Why the bad reputation for the PPKs and PPK/Ss they make? In fact, do they not make them for Walther now?

Highly ironic, exporting Walther pistols to Germany from the United States.
Click to expand...

I have both a Sig 232 and SmithWalther PPK/s. The 232 is used and is a great gun, I really enjoy it!

I got the SmithWalther new, had fail to feed and fail to extract issues, had the LGS send it to Smith. Smith reported no problems and sent it back dirty.

Problems persisted, sent back to Smith, Smith reported no problems, sent it back dirty.

Went to my LGS and swapped for another PPK. Had problems. LGS let me trade it in at full value for any other gun and I got a Smith airweight .38.

A while later another crop of PPK/s s surfaced, so, foolishly I tried again. Cleaned it at the store and shot it at their range. In 30 rounds a trigger assy pin started drifting out. Returned the gun.

A while later, the bug hit again, the LGS had another crop in, and I got one. This one has worked perfectly.

So, to your question: With no knowledge on the topic, I THINK part of the issue is the SmithWalther was built under license, and Smith, with an American Not Invented Here attitude, just never gave a damn about the PPK.

I would love a German PPK in .32, but cheap now they are not. But my SmithWalther is a good weapon and I can live out my inner-Bond with it. The Sig 232 is a better weapon.

Oh, last time I checked, Walther was going to build the PPK again in the US, along with some other models. I THINK those plans are still on track, but won't swear to it.
 
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