Wake-up call on penetration: guess which rounds would go through a door

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Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
Today I had a chance to shoot up a door with a variety of calibers. Care to guess which would go through a regular door and still have enough energy to penetrate half-way into the next door of the same kind?

....drum roll....

.22 CB from a 4" revolver fired from 15ft and #8 cheapo trap loads in 20ga at 30ft. So much for "not endangering innocent bystanders downrange in case of a miss". Of course, a 30-06FMJ would go further than a .38 Glaser but still...

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
What type of door....
1) Hollow, veneer interior type
2) Solid or metal clad exterior type?

A BB will go halfway through #1

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Oleg,
Could you give us a list of the calibers/bullet styles/manufacturers you used?
I KNOW one of them was a 9 Makarov. :D
Take it easy and good shooting, amigo

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
I left Makarov at home. Had two doors, one both made of cheap plywood with some trim, one had a window in it.

9mm any style goes through, so does 22, 45, 38. Those make a barely noticeable hole in and a slintered hole out. 357, 223, 30 carbine all punch through clearly. 357, 223 and 30 also do a number on the door handle and the lock. 45 does too, but doesn't penetrate.

Interestingly, a car bumper (mid-80s Ford something) resists everything pretty well. 22 leaves no trace, nor does 38. 223 only works straight on. Car hood makes for lousy cover as everything ricochets off it.
 
Oleg, the FBI has published a long term study on ammo and stopping power. Their recommendation for stopping an attack is penetration of at least 12 inches. The, cheap, target ball ammo does that. The expensive hollow point,fragmental, etc. doesn't. I am changing my mag. loading to every other! Thanks for doing some testing on other objects! The next time I have to kill a door I'll remember your scientific study and SMILE!
 
The purpose of my oh so controlled study is to know what is concealment and what is cover. I will post some pics of the results, though they'd be more for wallpapers than for any real study.

I also realized that guns that point well will do better in real life than guns with good sights. Keltec P11 does well in that respect (though it still puts the brass in my face :eek :). Winchester Defender pump is a fine gun for close range, too, as is the M1 carbine. With the AR, the front sight "ears" should have been made into a hood, as I picked them up by mistake a few times.

Interesting nuance of shotgunning: the penetration differs drastically depending on whether or not the shot cup has separated from the pellets. Under 7-10 feet birdshot punched a 3-3.5" hole in two doors and a layer of sheet metal (pressed mild steel) and dented another layer. At 12ft the pellets got through one door and merely damaged the next.
 
Oleg,

Have you tried aiming over the top of the sights on the AR? It might cut down on reaction time and confusion with the ears, and center post. It won't get you match grade accuracy, but it should get the bullet near where you want it (and still count) with practice. Just a suggestion.
 
That's why my first two shots from my home defense shotgun are #8 shot. Yes, some pellets might in fact penetrate to my neighbor's apartment, but I really feel that it will be non-lethal. Still and all, a BG is your best backstop when shooting at urban areas... :)

Didja really think that the .22 CB cap wouldn't penetrate through and through the door? The only way I'll expect MY door to stop anything is after a visit to my local welding shop: "Yessir, that's what I need; Three feet by seven feet, 3/8" steel. And be sure and re-harden it after you're done; the heat anneals it..."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sumabich:
Oleg, the FBI has published a long term study on ammo and stopping power. Their recommendation for stopping an attack is penetration of at least 12 inches. The, cheap, target ball ammo does that. The expensive hollow point,fragmental, etc. doesn't. I am changing my mag. loading to every other! Thanks for doing some testing on other objects! The next time I have to kill a door I'll remember your scientific study and SMILE![/quote]

Remember, the FBI wanted 12" penetration AFTER the bullet had gone through glass, metal, wall board, clothing, etc.
Now, do you really think it's going to make that much difference if a round penetrates 11.5" as opposed to 12"? ACcording to the FBI, the 11.5" round is a "failure."
While the FBI may indeed find itself in a high percentage of gunfights around cars or other solid objects, I'm not so sure that I, John Q. Public, need to worry about 12" penetration after going through glass, etc. I figure if it can get about 8" after going through clothing, it's good enough.



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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
Well I have never thought much of using birdshot. I know some guys that when they get bored duck or pheasent hunting will cut down trees with their shotguns. I would never shoot a tree on purpose myself. But I did find it interesting that they could cut down trees over 4" in diameter with birdshot.
 
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