I am looking for info on a double barrel shotgun, 16 gauge, hammers,one barrel is stamped 16.1 and the other is 16.5 ; chokes? Anyway I can't find a reference for this and the gun is a " FOREST model '' by WAFFEN FRANKONIA-WURZBURG. I am looking for year of manufacture, by who, where, possible value, etc.
waffen frankonia shotgun?
- Thread starter jeffg
- Start date
WAFFEN FRANKONIA-WURZBURG, founded in 1908, is still in business in Wurzburg, Germany, making sporting rifles, etc.
The proofmarks should help define the year/era your double was made, but from the gauge markings I would WAG that it was made prior to WWI.
Because the barrels are marked "16", and not "16/70" (2-3/4"), it has the older short 2-1/2" or 2-9/16" (65mm) chamber (all fired lengths) - and should NOT be fired with modern 2-3/4" ammo (even though unfired shells will chamber), even so-called "low brass" or target loads.
Proper, low-pressure 2-1/2" shotshells are available today from the likes of RST, PolyWad, Kent, GameBore & others.
The "16.1" (about IC) & 16.5" (about MOD) are the respective barrel's choke constriction measurements.
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The proofmarks should help define the year/era your double was made, but from the gauge markings I would WAG that it was made prior to WWI.
Because the barrels are marked "16", and not "16/70" (2-3/4"), it has the older short 2-1/2" or 2-9/16" (65mm) chamber (all fired lengths) - and should NOT be fired with modern 2-3/4" ammo (even though unfired shells will chamber), even so-called "low brass" or target loads.
Proper, low-pressure 2-1/2" shotshells are available today from the likes of RST, PolyWad, Kent, GameBore & others.
The "16.1" (about IC) & 16.5" (about MOD) are the respective barrel's choke constriction measurements.
.
Thanks for responding, the gun seems more modern and I broke the gun down again and found a serial # 21190, also the tubes have other stampings. The first tube is marked 1,350 17,1 16,1 the second is stamped 18,6 17,1 16,5 under the 18,6 is stamped 70 but only on that tube. I will try to find a website for the manufacturer, but didn't have much luck doing a google search.
oneounceload
Moderator
The 16, 17 and 18 numbers are bore dimensions in MM.
the 70 is the chamber length
The 1350 is the proof pressure approved for that barrel
It sounds like the barrels were altered and reproofed
16.1 = .633
16.5 = .649
17.1 = .673
18.6 = .732
Since the 16 gauge is a nominal .662, I am wondering about the 18.6, which is a 12 gauge bore diameter
A quick trip to a good gunsmith with a bore gauge can clear this up
the 70 is the chamber length
The 1350 is the proof pressure approved for that barrel
It sounds like the barrels were altered and reproofed
16.1 = .633
16.5 = .649
17.1 = .673
18.6 = .732
Since the 16 gauge is a nominal .662, I am wondering about the 18.6, which is a 12 gauge bore diameter
A quick trip to a good gunsmith with a bore gauge can clear this up
mapsjanhere
New member
Please try to get better pictures of the proof marks, by they look east german to me. Frankonia used to brand DDR and USSR guns.
The Italians started using Roman numeral year codes at the end of WWII. I for 1945 until XXX in 1974. Then they switched to a two letter code with AA for 1975. It gets confusing because some combinations are skipped: AF for 1980 and then AH for 1981 (perhaps AG means something nasty in Italian).
TheKlawMan
Moderator
The chart posted here on SGW agrees with Zippy that XVI the Italian proof code for a date of 1960. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=73492
TheKlawMan
Moderator
Patriot USA says on this SGW thread that 1190 is the grms the barrel weighs. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=259709
What is the likelihood that the barrels were made in Italy and sold to a German company that assembled the gun or the guns were simply built in Italy and branded by the the German company?
What is the likelihood that the barrels were made in Italy and sold to a German company that assembled the gun or the guns were simply built in Italy and branded by the the German company?
Anything's possible. It could be that the gun was re-barreled in Italy. WAFFEN FRANKONIA-WURZBURG has been around for over 100-years, but the area was extensively bombed during WWII. After the war, they made sporting rifles based on military actions. I'm guessing they were back in full production by the 1960s. Since the gun is labeled Forest Model, not Wald nor Foresta, I suspect it was made for export to an English speaking market. The OP showed us pics of the barrels, but not close-ups of the receiver's markings. A date mark on the action might help understand this mystery. The gun may have been picked up by a GI who was then transferred to Italy. As I said, anything's possible.