Waco....modified trigger

[Nathan]

So, I’m watching Waco and David Koresh finds that the agent is carrying a pistol. He takes it from the agent and unloads it. Then checks the trigger. Asks the guy where he bought it...agent says gun show. David says no, it’s been modified. It has an illegal trigger.


Ok. Teach me. What is an illegal trigger on a .Berretta 92?

 

[JohnKSa]

If the gun had been modified to fire full auto, that would be illegal.

I don't think you could tell if it was full auto without running the slide on the gun while manipulating the trigger. Just playing with the trigger alone wouldn't tell you much.

 

[44 AMP]

Ok. Teach me. What is an illegal trigger on a .Berretta 92?

In this case I think its what ever the scriptwriter thinks it is.

There are 4 general categories of tv shows/movies. The group is always identified, but sometimes, only in the fine print.

There are works of fiction. Very common and pretty self explanatory. The writers can do /say anything at all.

Actual events. These are what we call documentaries. What is said and shown actually happened.

"Based on real events" These include actual events but are not limited to only reality.

"Inspired by real events" These contain real place and person names, and that about all that can be counted on to match reality.

I am not familiar with the show "Waco", but a situation such as you describe means its NOT an accurate documentary.

An "illegal trigger" meaning a full auto fire gun first of all, cannot be determined just by trigger action alone, the action must be cycled, and #2), its not "illegal" if it's a weapon issued to law enforcement agents.

 

[ballardw]

Why to I think that an "agent" that gives a gun to anyone while on duty has issues with following agency policies?

 

[Tom Servo]

I was a bit perplexed by that scene as well. Robert Rodriguez was the agent in question, and I've never seen a mention of him being caught with a gun. By his account (and Thibodeau's as well), the Branch Davidians either didn't suspect him or they didn't confront him about it.

The account of him trying to get the raid called off is true, as are the general chronology and motives behind ATF's actions. As TV shows about things like this go, I was very surprised at how nuanced the account is.

 

[Skans]

No one in law enforcement is going to modify a Beretta 92 to run full auto. First, it would be a difficult modification. Second, the gun only holds 15 rounds, and third it is not known for being a robust design which can withstand serious punishment.

Like others have said, you can't just look at the trigger or even play with the trigger and know that it is full-auto.

Beretta does make the 93R machine pistol. The Beretta 93R is a significantly redesigned 92 to provide the option of firing in three-round bursts. It also has a longer ported barrel, heavier slide, fitting for a shoulder stock, a folding forward grip, and an extended magazine. Unlike other Berettas in the 90 series it is single-action only, does not have a decocker, and very few are around today.

 

[44 AMP]

Getting good gun information from TV shows is like getting good information on the laws of physics from Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner cartoons.

One show I saw had a detective pick up a 9mm empty at a crime scene, glance at it, then state that it was fired from a Tec 9. I had a Tec 9 at the time, and so I checked. There are some guns that leave distinctive firing pin marks (like Sigs) The Tec 9 is NOT one of them.

Another show, one of the NYC Law& Order ones, had someone shooting a Desert Eagle with a 15 shot magazine. That mag doesn't exist. And when the detectives informed them that 15rnd mags are illegal in NYC, they said, "oh, I didn't know", handed the cops the magazine, then left.

Any show with a historical setting that shows us private personal conversations and character's "inner thoughts" is essentially making it up. And when the writers are making it up, they can make up about anything they feel like, accurate, or not.

I was trained by the military to repair machineguns. From the M16 to Ma Deuce (M2 .50cal) I tell you for a fact that working the action and the trigger ONCE does not, and can not tell you if it is functional full auto.

there are only two possibilities with that scene. #1) the writers know this, but the character they are creating does not, and so makes a BS statement.
#2) the writers do not know this, but think they do, and so the character makes a BS statement.

You decide which is most likely...

Either way, same result. In a way, its like lying under oath, about a little thing. Once you get caught in that ALL your credibility is suspect at best and completely gone at worst.

Some might say, its ok, if they get the little stuff /technical items wrong, as long as they get the big stuff right. I say, if they get the little stuff wrong, how can they be trusted to get the big stuff right???

 

[Tom Servo]

Getting good gun information from TV shows is like getting good information on the laws of physics from Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner cartoons.

I agree, but this one...it gets quite a bit right. It starts with the Ruby Ridge mess, and it squarely lays blame with the ATF and Horiuchi. The writers could have easily written Koresh as a general nut, but they look for nuance in his character.

Among their chief sources were Gary Noesner's book on the FBI negotiations (which isn't kind to anyone involved on the government's end) and an autobiography of David Thibodeau, one of the survivors.

 

[reynolds357]

Why to I think that an "agent" that gives a gun to anyone while on duty has issues with following agency policies?

I worked undercover off an on while I was in Narcotics. All the written policy goes out the window when need be. One of my "targets" actually shot my Glock 27 at cans on his back porch. (literally on his porch. He shot his deck up) We then shot his 1911. His AKS. and a .22 rifle. Between the two of us, we also drunk about a whole case of Coors while watching 4 episodes of Andy Griffith. It drove the cover team insane, but I set up a meth deal that set up another that eventually set up a multi Kilo Coke deal.

I wouldnt have handed him my Glock 22 because it has "LE and Govt only" stamped magazine in it.

 

[Scorch]

Getting good gun information from TV shows is like getting good information on the laws of physics from Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner cartoons.

Made me laugh.

TV shows, video games, and politicians who know nothing about guns just make me shake my head and walk away. It's not new, either. I watch the old shows on YouTube, and they were doing the same back in the 60s. It's amazing that TV writers can say stupid stuff for 60 years and people still watch. But I guess most people don't know, so they don't catch it.