Waco decision in.....
- Thread starter JimDiver
- Start date
sit down before you try and swallow this :
Specifically, the former U.S. senator said "with 100 percent certainty" that:
Government agents did not start the fire at Waco.
Government agents did not shoot at the Davidians on April 19, 1993.
Government did not improperly use the United States military.
Government did not engage in a massive conspiracy and cover-up.
Noting that his office's 10-month investigation reviewed more than 2 million pages of documents, interviewed almost 900 witnesses and examined a large amount of physical evidence, Danforth told a news conference:
"Responsibility for the tragedy at Waco rests with certain of the Branch Davidians and their leader, David Koresh, who shot and killed four ATF agents, wounded 20 others, shot at FBI agents trying to insert tear gas into the complex, burned down the complex and shot at least 20 of their own people, including five children."
Specifically, the former U.S. senator said "with 100 percent certainty" that:
Government agents did not start the fire at Waco.
Government agents did not shoot at the Davidians on April 19, 1993.
Government did not improperly use the United States military.
Government did not engage in a massive conspiracy and cover-up.
Noting that his office's 10-month investigation reviewed more than 2 million pages of documents, interviewed almost 900 witnesses and examined a large amount of physical evidence, Danforth told a news conference:
"Responsibility for the tragedy at Waco rests with certain of the Branch Davidians and their leader, David Koresh, who shot and killed four ATF agents, wounded 20 others, shot at FBI agents trying to insert tear gas into the complex, burned down the complex and shot at least 20 of their own people, including five children."
Left unsaid is that the BATF fudged the search warrant and should not have been there in the first place. They would all be alive.
Left unsaid is that David Koresh invited the BATF into the church days before. The BATF declined.
Left unsaid is that the BATF shot first.
Left unsaid is that the Branch Davidians were acquitted of murder.
Left unsaid is that the amounts of methyl chloride and CS was lethal and likely killed people before the fire.
Should I go on?
Left unsaid is that David Koresh invited the BATF into the church days before. The BATF declined.
Left unsaid is that the BATF shot first.
Left unsaid is that the Branch Davidians were acquitted of murder.
Left unsaid is that the amounts of methyl chloride and CS was lethal and likely killed people before the fire.
Should I go on?
Ed Brunner
New member
Makes you wonder what was in Danforth's FBI file. I am not joking!
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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
Ed
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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
Ed
Next they will announce really neat "summer camps" we can all go to for FREE. And we won't need to bring anything with us 'cause they will take care of everything! Even the transportation will be provided - we can all ride on trains! Cool, I always wanted to ride the train. And when we get there we can all take special showers!
There is no limit to the tyranny of the current administration, nor to their ability to get the public to ignore it!
Mikey
There is no limit to the tyranny of the current administration, nor to their ability to get the public to ignore it!
Mikey
His major concern was that the peoples confidence in the government wasn't very good.
Recent polls indicated that 60% of the American public basically didn't trust the government.
His mission was to restore confidence in the government. That explains everything.
The bastards really want the fire of revolution to burn this nation into oblivion!
Evil ((((S.O. Bs.))))
Waterdog
Recent polls indicated that 60% of the American public basically didn't trust the government.
His mission was to restore confidence in the government. That explains everything.
The bastards really want the fire of revolution to burn this nation into oblivion!
Evil ((((S.O. Bs.))))
Waterdog
I have to agree with waterdog... I heard him on the news and his comments leave no doubt that he is out to try and give the government trust... ie.. his comment that people should not listen to those who make claims about government abuse.
Ever read the article on the Warshaw uprising? His comments here sure remind me of what the jewish leaders were telling the people in Warshaw. And most of them fell for it. Afterall if our leaders say it is not true (that were being hauled off to gas chambers instead of to new jobs), then it can't be true.
OK... lets look at it from the net effect... forget all of who did what etc... and just look at the net effect.... 80+ people dead... Net effect.... someone did something wrong.
What are government is afraid of is this being the rallying cry for an uprising. So they must calm the sheeple down. End of story.
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Richard
The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
Ever read the article on the Warshaw uprising? His comments here sure remind me of what the jewish leaders were telling the people in Warshaw. And most of them fell for it. Afterall if our leaders say it is not true (that were being hauled off to gas chambers instead of to new jobs), then it can't be true.
OK... lets look at it from the net effect... forget all of who did what etc... and just look at the net effect.... 80+ people dead... Net effect.... someone did something wrong.
What are government is afraid of is this being the rallying cry for an uprising. So they must calm the sheeple down. End of story.
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Richard
The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
This is a list of Government vehicles and equipment on hand BEFORE any one started shooting. Also reports of the local fire department was told to stay at least one mile away from the compound BEFORE any fire started.
WHAT A BULL**** DECISION BY DANFORTH. I WONDER HOW HE KEPT A STRAIGHT FACE?
Some of the arsenal against the Davidians...
10 Bradley fighting vehicles;
2 Abrams tanks;
5 combat engineering vehicles;
1 tank retriever;
3 Huey, 3 Chinook and 2 Blackhawk helicopters;
night vision goggles;
gas masks; and the list goes on.
Furthermore, the FBI also asked the military for training on 40mm grenade launchers along with hundreds of rounds of ammunition,
including 250 high-explosive rounds, according to one report from the General Accounting Office.
WHAT A BULL**** DECISION BY DANFORTH. I WONDER HOW HE KEPT A STRAIGHT FACE?
Some of the arsenal against the Davidians...
10 Bradley fighting vehicles;
2 Abrams tanks;
5 combat engineering vehicles;
1 tank retriever;
3 Huey, 3 Chinook and 2 Blackhawk helicopters;
night vision goggles;
gas masks; and the list goes on.
Furthermore, the FBI also asked the military for training on 40mm grenade launchers along with hundreds of rounds of ammunition,
including 250 high-explosive rounds, according to one report from the General Accounting Office.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikey:
Next they will announce really neat "summer camps" we can all go to for FREE. And we won't need to bring anything with us 'cause they will take care of everything! Even the transportation will be provided - we can all ride on trains! Cool, I always wanted to ride the train. And when we get there we can all take special showers!
[/quote]
I take it you have seen pyhsical and documentary evidence of such events that are consistent with eyewitness accounts. Or are you repeating rumors?
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If the priority of the archive over witnes accounts is given up, history ceases to be a science and becomes an art.
http://www.ety.com/tell/why.html
Next they will announce really neat "summer camps" we can all go to for FREE. And we won't need to bring anything with us 'cause they will take care of everything! Even the transportation will be provided - we can all ride on trains! Cool, I always wanted to ride the train. And when we get there we can all take special showers!
[/quote]
I take it you have seen pyhsical and documentary evidence of such events that are consistent with eyewitness accounts. Or are you repeating rumors?
------------------
If the priority of the archive over witnes accounts is given up, history ceases to be a science and becomes an art.
http://www.ety.com/tell/why.html
I'm sure every amerikan in the US is absoultely grateful for the job that our loving govt did in protecting the children from those dangerous cult maniacs.
You know there is no bottom in the pit of stupidity belonging to the populous at large.
[This message has been edited by scud (edited July 24, 2000).]
You know there is no bottom in the pit of stupidity belonging to the populous at large.
[This message has been edited by scud (edited July 24, 2000).]
Rich Lucibella
Staff
One document of some historical interest states:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> WHEN in the course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them.....[/quote]
Reasons for the separation are then detailed:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.....
- He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to Civil Power....
- For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States...[/quote]
A moving read, no? Interesting that the document quoted has no relevance to today's "complicated world"...at least not as far as the handlers and ostriches are concerned.
Now I need to excuse myself and go check the graves of the Founders....bodies rolling over tend to disturb the headstones.
Rich
[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited July 24, 2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> WHEN in the course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them.....[/quote]
Reasons for the separation are then detailed:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.....
- He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to Civil Power....
- For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States...[/quote]
A moving read, no? Interesting that the document quoted has no relevance to today's "complicated world"...at least not as far as the handlers and ostriches are concerned.
Now I need to excuse myself and go check the graves of the Founders....bodies rolling over tend to disturb the headstones.
Rich
[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited July 24, 2000).]
This study was a set up from the beginning. Danforth had no intentions of "getting to the bottom of this." If you will remember, Danforth "negotiated" with RenoClinton the terms of his charter. His charter was to investigate only what happened once the seige started. Specifically excluded was any investigation into WHY the seige was necessary. I submit the answer to that question will determine what really happened during the seige.
Once again Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch is the only one acting to see that justice is remotely approximated. He has several actions ongoing. Whadaya bet his efforts will develop evidence at variance with Danforth's charter.
The fix was in from day one. What this tells me is bureaucratic Washington, Democrats, and Republicans all had something to lose if the truth, whatever that is, were to ever come out.
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Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater--1964
Once again Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch is the only one acting to see that justice is remotely approximated. He has several actions ongoing. Whadaya bet his efforts will develop evidence at variance with Danforth's charter.
The fix was in from day one. What this tells me is bureaucratic Washington, Democrats, and Republicans all had something to lose if the truth, whatever that is, were to ever come out.
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Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Barry Goldwater--1964
Gunter,
JimR is correct inasmuch as I was indeed being somewhat sarcastic. I know of no such camps or plans. I was simply putting todays events in perspective by parroting events of yesteryear, albeit from a different continent.
I am, however, genuinely appalled at the amount of murderous behavior exhibited by our government with apparent impunity. With respect to my alleged rights as a human and American, these are the darkest days of my life on this planet.
Mikey
JimR is correct inasmuch as I was indeed being somewhat sarcastic. I know of no such camps or plans. I was simply putting todays events in perspective by parroting events of yesteryear, albeit from a different continent.
I am, however, genuinely appalled at the amount of murderous behavior exhibited by our government with apparent impunity. With respect to my alleged rights as a human and American, these are the darkest days of my life on this planet.
Mikey
Mikey, to build on your post, the thing that has me completely floored, is the public reaction to the Elian raid. I do not want to get into the REASON for the raid, but rather the public reaction to the WAY it was carried out. If the info is accurate, 72% of the people approved of Govt. agents breaking into a private house and holding the occupants at gun point without a warrant. The warrant was made public knowledge the next day and it was not shown to the home owner as the law requires. Don't fall for the excuse "they thought there were guns in the house". Bulls**t. The FBI conducted a search of the house two or three days before the raid and gave it a clean report. That the American people are accepting this kind of Govt. action is what is really scary.
Jeff Thomas
New member
And ... work shall set us free.