I recently was forced to sell my HK P7M8 on Gunbroker. The buyer lives in Spokane, and I'm in Seattle. I shipped it the other day, and to my great surprise, was told that I had to pay a $40 transfer fee in order to ship it. And the buyer would also pay the fee on his end to. What??? I have shipped guns from Massachusetts and Connecticut, and never had to pay a transfer fee to ship it away. The guy checked with another employee, who verified the same information. looking this up online doesn't really specify the fee for shipping away... Is this really how things work in Washington?
WA state double transfer fee
- Thread starter Elerius
- Start date
It was from FFL to FFL. But that's how I always have shipped guns, and they usually charge about $10 to box it and pack it in New England on top of shipping and insurance. that's why this was so surprising, and kind of makes me not want to sell anything that needs shipping if that's the way it will be.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
An FFL is required to enter a firearm into his bound book if he will have custody of it overnight. I believe if all he's going to do is drop it in a box and immediately take it to the post office for shipping, he doesn't need to enter it into his bound book.
That said, it takes a lot more time to box up a gun and drive to the post office than it does to fill out one line in a bound book. $10 less the cost of the postage doesn't leave a lot to pay the FFL for his time and gasoline. $40 may or may not be appropriate, but $10 IMHO is definitely inadequate compensation.
That said, it takes a lot more time to box up a gun and drive to the post office than it does to fill out one line in a bound book. $10 less the cost of the postage doesn't leave a lot to pay the FFL for his time and gasoline. $40 may or may not be appropriate, but $10 IMHO is definitely inadequate compensation.
How are you forced to sell anything on Gunbroker? (or anywhere else, for that matter?)
You chose to use an FFL for an instate matter, so you are paying what they want, to get what you want.
For $40 bucks, plus what he's paying on his end, you could have driven to Spokane and delivered the gun personally. (or close)
I'll check further, but I don't think there is any law requiring you do it the way you did. Choosing to do it that way does cover your butt a lot of ways, but its not a requirement, and you simply are paying what they want, for the service you are getting (documented transfer via FFL(s)).
You chose to use an FFL for an instate matter, so you are paying what they want, to get what you want.
For $40 bucks, plus what he's paying on his end, you could have driven to Spokane and delivered the gun personally. (or close)
I'll check further, but I don't think there is any law requiring you do it the way you did. Choosing to do it that way does cover your butt a lot of ways, but its not a requirement, and you simply are paying what they want, for the service you are getting (documented transfer via FFL(s)).
1. I don't know WA laws, but in my state a gun can be shipped to a buyer within my state for a private party transfer without using an FFL at either end. Feds have no interest unless it crosses a state line.
2. Your title sounded like the state of WA was charging a transfer fee but reading the post it seems you mean what the FFLs are charging. There is no standard rate. It's up to each dealer to set his fee. If you shipped guns previously through FFLs without paying a transfer fee they were doing for free. I know a dealer who doesn't charge for transfers but he lives 80 miles away and it's cheaper to pay the guy 2 miles away $20 than to drive that far.
3. Not sure if any shipping was included or if this is just the dealer's fee. In that case $40 is a little high but I've heard of worse.
2. Your title sounded like the state of WA was charging a transfer fee but reading the post it seems you mean what the FFLs are charging. There is no standard rate. It's up to each dealer to set his fee. If you shipped guns previously through FFLs without paying a transfer fee they were doing for free. I know a dealer who doesn't charge for transfers but he lives 80 miles away and it's cheaper to pay the guy 2 miles away $20 than to drive that far.
3. Not sure if any shipping was included or if this is just the dealer's fee. In that case $40 is a little high but I've heard of worse.
By forced I mean that circumstances required me to sell it.
The $40 was a transfer fee. With my new job there wouldn't be any time to drive to Spokane, so I had to ship. The total cost being $87. $47 to pack and ship, and $40 for transfer.
Since I have shipped guns from multiple shops in MA and CT without ever having to pay a transfer fee to do so, my question is whether this particular shop was charging for the fee when other shops would not have. Being a transfer fee, I'd wonder why they would be doing so if WA was not requiring them to do it. If that is the case, I really don't think I want to ship anything again.
And I doubt there was any driving to the post office for it. The shops I've shipped from just give it to UPS or whoever they send it through, when they drop off other packages. I'm not debating a fee for time and effort and packing, just the fee for transfer.
The $40 was a transfer fee. With my new job there wouldn't be any time to drive to Spokane, so I had to ship. The total cost being $87. $47 to pack and ship, and $40 for transfer.
Since I have shipped guns from multiple shops in MA and CT without ever having to pay a transfer fee to do so, my question is whether this particular shop was charging for the fee when other shops would not have. Being a transfer fee, I'd wonder why they would be doing so if WA was not requiring them to do it. If that is the case, I really don't think I want to ship anything again.
And I doubt there was any driving to the post office for it. The shops I've shipped from just give it to UPS or whoever they send it through, when they drop off other packages. I'm not debating a fee for time and effort and packing, just the fee for transfer.
All I can say is that the shops in MA and CT you dealt with must be really nice guys.
The laws and the shipping companies essentially work together to make it expensive. Generally speaking, you cannot use the US Post office unless you are an FFL (there are specific exceptions, but do not apply to your case).
Private shipping companies generally require "next day" shipping, at premium rates for firearms. There may be exceptions, but you'll have to find them.
Fed law requires FFL to FFL if the transfer crosses state lines.
$40 for a transfer fee is high, at this time, for the area. Although, like everything else, the usual cost ($15-25) has been creeping up lately.
I have heard of dealers back east (certain places) charging as much as $100 for a transfer fee, which they can do because essentially, in their location they have a lock on the market.
11 years ago, I had to ship 3 pistols from New York to WA. My father had passed away, and I was sending his pistols to their new home in WA. It was an eye opening experience for me. In the 70s, when I lived in NY (upstate, rural) you almost couldn't "swing a dead cat" without hitting a gunsmith, dealer, or sporting goods store (FFL dealer). I had to drive 80 miles to find an FFL after the funeral, and he charged $25 per gun, PLUS shipping and insurance. The dealer in WA who received them for me didn't charge me anything. he did ask for a beer for his trouble...
I'm sure that if I had to do a similar thing today, the expense would be at least double. (although I can easily manage two beers...
)
You can thank our elected officials zealotry for keeping us safe for the expense we incur if we want or need to ship a firearm.
If you need to do this again, I would recommend shopping around a bit for an FFL, some will do it much cheaper. Of course, I would also recommend avoiding the whole expense, if practical.
I hope your new job works out well for you, but take some well meant advice from an aging shooter, no matter how well it pays, any job that doesn't give you the time off to drive from Seattle to Spokane and back (one day off) on a regular basis isn't worth keeping in the long run.
The law in WA still allows for instate face to face sale between private individuals. I would have gone that route, maybe even telling the buyer to come to me. Depending on circumstances, of course.
I would also urge you to vote against the WA Background Check initiative when it shows up on the next ballot. Its a poor idea, and written even worse. The proposed law would make common everyday customary behavior such as me visiting you, and you handing me a pistol to examine, a crime, unless we BOTH went to an FFL, you transfer the gun to him, and then he to me, including the background check, first! (and that is only ONE of the situations covered under the proposed law)
BAD LAW! DON'T SUPPORT IT!
The laws and the shipping companies essentially work together to make it expensive. Generally speaking, you cannot use the US Post office unless you are an FFL (there are specific exceptions, but do not apply to your case).
Private shipping companies generally require "next day" shipping, at premium rates for firearms. There may be exceptions, but you'll have to find them.
Fed law requires FFL to FFL if the transfer crosses state lines.
$40 for a transfer fee is high, at this time, for the area. Although, like everything else, the usual cost ($15-25) has been creeping up lately.
I have heard of dealers back east (certain places) charging as much as $100 for a transfer fee, which they can do because essentially, in their location they have a lock on the market.
11 years ago, I had to ship 3 pistols from New York to WA. My father had passed away, and I was sending his pistols to their new home in WA. It was an eye opening experience for me. In the 70s, when I lived in NY (upstate, rural) you almost couldn't "swing a dead cat" without hitting a gunsmith, dealer, or sporting goods store (FFL dealer). I had to drive 80 miles to find an FFL after the funeral, and he charged $25 per gun, PLUS shipping and insurance. The dealer in WA who received them for me didn't charge me anything. he did ask for a beer for his trouble...
I'm sure that if I had to do a similar thing today, the expense would be at least double. (although I can easily manage two beers...
)You can thank our elected officials zealotry for keeping us safe for the expense we incur if we want or need to ship a firearm.
If you need to do this again, I would recommend shopping around a bit for an FFL, some will do it much cheaper. Of course, I would also recommend avoiding the whole expense, if practical.
I hope your new job works out well for you, but take some well meant advice from an aging shooter, no matter how well it pays, any job that doesn't give you the time off to drive from Seattle to Spokane and back (one day off) on a regular basis isn't worth keeping in the long run.
The law in WA still allows for instate face to face sale between private individuals. I would have gone that route, maybe even telling the buyer to come to me. Depending on circumstances, of course.
I would also urge you to vote against the WA Background Check initiative when it shows up on the next ballot. Its a poor idea, and written even worse. The proposed law would make common everyday customary behavior such as me visiting you, and you handing me a pistol to examine, a crime, unless we BOTH went to an FFL, you transfer the gun to him, and then he to me, including the background check, first! (and that is only ONE of the situations covered under the proposed law)
BAD LAW! DON'T SUPPORT IT!
kilimanjaro
New member
The fees for shipping and transfer have nothing to do with being in Washingon. The state does collect sales tax on transfers, so expect to pay that here when getting your Gunbroker goodie.
Between shipping, a transfer fee, and sales tax, you can $100 or more to the price of an internet bargain. Even C&Rs to the doorstep add 30 or 40 bucks shipping.
Between shipping, a transfer fee, and sales tax, you can $100 or more to the price of an internet bargain. Even C&Rs to the doorstep add 30 or 40 bucks shipping.
This is why I had always shipped from shops... for the extra $10 they would pack and ship it and had UPS, Fed Ex and USPS to choose from. sometimes a carrier would be more than double the price compared to another, but I'd have the info for all when I was at the counter.
It's sad and surprising that in this case, I had it better in Massachusetts. Thanks for the responses.
There's no question the private shippers have us over a barrel in this. The law says we have to use them (cannot use regular post office), and so, they can charge what every they want, we have no where else to go.
also the Hazmat "fee". I spent several years involved with packaging hazardous materials for shipment. Powder, primers, etc, were always shipped as some class of hazardous material, since the advent of the regulations. For many years shippers simply just accepted it as the cost of doing business.
Then some bright fellow figured out that they could actually pass along the cost to the buyer, and the buyer would pay.
Trust me on this, I know the regs for shipment. It does cost more to load a semi truck with several different classes of hazmat, than it does to load one with non-hazardous material. BUT it does not cost $10-15 per package, not even close. But that is what we are being told to pay, and we pay, as there is no choice....
Hazmat shipping requirements are about proper packaging (provided my the manufacturer for powder, primers, etc., NOT the shipper), spacing between incompatible materials & containment in the event of a leak/spill, and proper placarding and labeling. While this does add some to the cost, we are, essentially, being gouged.
also the Hazmat "fee". I spent several years involved with packaging hazardous materials for shipment. Powder, primers, etc, were always shipped as some class of hazardous material, since the advent of the regulations. For many years shippers simply just accepted it as the cost of doing business.
Then some bright fellow figured out that they could actually pass along the cost to the buyer, and the buyer would pay.
Trust me on this, I know the regs for shipment. It does cost more to load a semi truck with several different classes of hazmat, than it does to load one with non-hazardous material. BUT it does not cost $10-15 per package, not even close. But that is what we are being told to pay, and we pay, as there is no choice....
Hazmat shipping requirements are about proper packaging (provided my the manufacturer for powder, primers, etc., NOT the shipper), spacing between incompatible materials & containment in the event of a leak/spill, and proper placarding and labeling. While this does add some to the cost, we are, essentially, being gouged.
I've bought a couple of guns on gunbroker, and the "sending" charges, whatever they were, were paid by the sender.
As buyer, I would traditionally pay only my FFL's transfer fee.
Over the last two or three years, the state of Washington has cracked-down on collection of sales tax on out-of-state gun purchases, so WA FFLs are now uncompensated state employees, collecting sales tax on any new guns that they transfer; don't know about used guns?
As buyer, I would traditionally pay only my FFL's transfer fee.
Over the last two or three years, the state of Washington has cracked-down on collection of sales tax on out-of-state gun purchases, so WA FFLs are now uncompensated state employees, collecting sales tax on any new guns that they transfer; don't know about used guns?
kilimanjaro
New member
Used guns also pay the tax.
You can ship a long gun or an antique gun by USPS (the Post Office) anywhere, not just in WA. You can ship an antique by USPS to anyone, but a modern long gun can be shipped only to an FFL dealer, manufacturer or importer. (There are exceptions, but they are of no import here.)
Per postal regulations, in WA and the other 49 states, if you do not have a dealer, manufacturer, or importer license, you may NOT ship a modern (non-antique) handgun to anyone by USPS. Period. Whether the shipment crosses state lines or not. Even a person with a C&R FFL cannot ship a non-antique handgun by USPS.
If you ship a modern handgun via USPS without telling them, or lie to them about the contents of the package, it is a federal felony. If you are caught and convicted, you can be fined, imprisoned and lose your gun rights for life. It is not worth it for a few bucks.
Jim
Per postal regulations, in WA and the other 49 states, if you do not have a dealer, manufacturer, or importer license, you may NOT ship a modern (non-antique) handgun to anyone by USPS. Period. Whether the shipment crosses state lines or not. Even a person with a C&R FFL cannot ship a non-antique handgun by USPS.
If you ship a modern handgun via USPS without telling them, or lie to them about the contents of the package, it is a federal felony. If you are caught and convicted, you can be fined, imprisoned and lose your gun rights for life. It is not worth it for a few bucks.
Jim
Technically it's not sales tax, it's "use tax", although there may be sales tax applied to the transfer fee. As it's the same tax rate, 9 times out of 10 it doesn't matter. However, if you can prove sales tax has already been paid on the firearm, you don't usually have to pay use tax again. Washington Department of Revenue page on the subject