Voting with Dollars

D

Dennis

Staff Emeritus
Today I sent the following e-mail to Wal-Mart:

Today, as usual, I drove past a new Target store and passed wihin a mile of a K-Mart, to visit my favorite Wal-Mart on Walnut Street in New Braunfels, TX. As I began to enter Wal-Mart, I was saddened to see a sign prohibiting concealed handguns (even if licensed) on the entrance door. I was unarmed at the moment, but it is clear you no longer want my business because of my political beliefs.

According to my accounting software, I spent more than $3,745 (for my home and business) at Wal-Mart and Sam's in 1998. Now I am not welcome.

I will fight for your right to control your premises and do business as you see fit; but I am "voting with dollars" when I make a purchase. Any difference in prices between Target and Wal-Mart is very slight, so until I, as a licensed handgun owner, am welcome again at your business, I will shop where I am as welcome as my dollars.

The loss of my business surely is negligible to the behemoth Wal-Mart has become. But I am not alone in my opinions - many of my friends tell me the new Target store is clean and well-stocked. They have sales events. Their store is newer and cleaner than the New Braunfels Wal-Mart or Sam's (several in San Antonio, TX). Target has many happy and helpful salespeople on the floor. It's a nice place.

I feel I am safer where people think I might have a gun than someplace where they know I can not have one. Also, I strongly prefer to support those who support my rights and trust me, rather than those who do not care about my rights and say, "Just bring your dollars."

I know of fifteen people in our area who feel as I do, though I'm sure your polls would support whatever viewpoint you desire. Let me know if I am ever welcome again in your stores.

Thank you for the opportunity to express my views.

Dennis & Leona Bateman
(address & phone)

-------
Unite!
 
Dennis,

Good work. Now, for those of us who will stand shoulder to shoulder with you, please post Wally Worl'ds email address. To think I bought my .22 ammo from them. :(

Gary
 
Good one, Dennis!! You could have thrown in that such signs alert the criminal element to potentially easier pickings, and also that it must mean that they accept full liability for your safety while on premise, but you nailed 'em on what they really understand - lost sales $$$$$$$. Obviously, if they gave a rat's posterior about your safety, they wouldn't post such silliness, and if they knew anything about CCW, they'd know that CCW holders are exteremely law-abiding and are desirable as customers. People that stoopid don't deserve your business! M2
 
Dennis, good job wonder what ol'e Walter is thinking abuot now.
BTW what is Targets and K-marts policy on CCW in thier stores do they post signs?
Here in North Carolina haven't really noticed if any of them have signs or not gonna have to to check it out.

------------------
Justice for one,Justice for all.
 
Sorry, guys. I was a little steamed when I wrote to Wal-Mart & forgot to elicit help.
(Jeff Foxworthy says, "Dennis! Here's your sign!)

Let's see if I can do this email thingy:

letters@wal-mart.com

It works! It's alive!

I think the local Wal-Mart put this sign up after some sort of incident with a CHL holder IN the store. (Details sketchy.)
Also, I think this is a one-store deal. The sign is rather amateurish and does not fulfill the legal requirement for notification according to Texas law. Wording, size, & format all wrong...

If Wal-Mart HQs hears from "around the world", maybe the local store manager will re-consider. (heh, heh. :) )

My wife asked, "Does this mean I can't shop at Wal-Mart anymore? Their selections and prices are BETTER than Target."
I know that tone of voice. Quick for a compromise I said,
"Honey, you can shop wherever you want. Just don't use your real name."

I don't know if this one will float! If I don't lose my computer privileges, I'll keep you informed. :)
------------
Unite!

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited 01-14-99).]
 
I've been shopping at Wal-Mart for years and have never seen one of these signs. Could be something local management dreamed up? At any rate, I'll be checking around the doors carefully next time. If that sign is there, I won't be.
BTW: a couple of years ago Blockbuster Video tried this. Guns and Ammo ran a small story about it (about 1/8 page) and the signs disappeared overnight.
 
Kudos Dennis. Of course the criminals read and obey the signs right?
Olazul
 
To All-
These signs are very common in WalMarts, especially during the first few months after passage of CCW.

I've witnessed them in North Carolina and Texas. My favorite, was walking into the Murphy, NC store and asking for a manager. Told him I was there to buy a TV set, but that I had a weapon on. He suggested that I leave it in the car. I explained that was out of the question as the car didn't lock. He suggested the glove box...told him that didn't lock either.

When he started shufflin' from foot to foot, I suggested that he could just hold it for me....that *really* scared him. He said something like "Well, I guess you can go in if you know what you want. You're just going to Electronics, right?"....as though it might be dangerous if I went to Men's Shoes.

Once he waved me on I purchased the duct tape I'd gone there for and left. I'm waiting for the day some CCW holder sues the p**s out of them for having to defend himself with an empty holster during a mugging in the parking lot.
Rich
 
Rich - it might have been fun to tell him you were planning on hanging around in ladies lingerie for awhile! ;) So to speak ...
 
it must be a local thing. i don't think the one here has such a sign, but will pay closer attention next time i go. when the ccw law was first pass here in arkansas, there were a few places around town that put up signs, but thet seemed to have disappeared now. maybe they got smart! it could happen ;)

------------------
fiat justitia
 
Here in Minnespolis/St. Paul, Minnesota, CCW permits are very rare. When Superamerica gas station posted the signs, I took my business elsewhere. However, I think they discount legal CCW carriers as too few to make a difference.

BTW, leaving weapon unsecured and loaded in the car would be illegal, unloading it in public to put in the trunk would be illegal...guess I could tell than that law-abiding CCW carriers *cannot* shop with them even if they could. I also wonder if they are too afraid to ask cops to leave the store, as last time I was there a whole bunch of boys in blue sported stainless SmithWessons...
 
Today I received the following from Wal-Mart.
DTG: 2/2/99 10:20 AM
QUOTE
Thank you for contacting Wal-Mart regarding our concealed handgun policy.
Wal-Mart
was founded by Sam Walton on three basic principles: Strive for Excellance (sic),
Service
to our Customers, and Respect for the Individual. It is that respect for
the
individual that led us to create the current policy pertaining to concealed
handguns.

The following in(sic)
our policy......If a Wal-Mart customer has been awarded a
concealed
handgun license by the state government, Wal-Mart will follow the direction
of the
state. However, if at anytime while on Wal-Mart property, that customer's
concealed
weapon becomes visible to Wal-Mart associates or customers, Wal-Mart
reserves the
right to ask the customer to either reposition the weapon so that it will
not be
visable(sic),
to remove the weapon completely or to leave Wal-Mart property.

With the exception of law enforcement personnel, Wal-Mart does not aloow any
exposed
weapons to be worn or carried in public view on Wal-Mart property or in
Wal-Mart
stores. Customers other than law enforcement personnel wearing or carrying
a weapon
in an exposed manner will be asked to leave the property immediately.

We appreciate your concern and trust that this message has addressed your
concerns
regarding this issue.

Thank you,

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
UNQUOTE

Nice letter. Unfortunately it is in conflict with their store policy.

(Also, after this amount of time, I expected a reply from someone who could spell and type better than I can.)

I will check to see if the "no guns" sign is still on the door of our local store. If it is, I will deliver to the manager (or his representative) a copy of this e-mail. If he does NOT take the sign down, I will report to Wal-Mart, Inc. that their store is in violation of corporate policy.

The snit continues.


[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited 02-02-99).]
 
The policy in the letter sounds resonable too me. I checked both of the Wal-Marts around here and neither one has a sign. I think your problem is with a local manager. Show him or her the letter and if they still don't take down the signs, Post Wal-Mart's postal or e-mail address here. I think many of us would be glad to let them know that you are not alone in your concerns. Sometimes ya just gotta hit em in de head wit a hammer ta git dere attention! ;)
 
If it makes any differance, the Walmart I go to here in San Antonio has a sign that reads "no unlicensed firearms permitted." If you look at it too quickly it's easy to misread it as "no firearms permitted." Either way, I just thought I would point it out. Also, when I went through my CHL class, I was told that the rules had been changed so that if the sign (at a business) wasn't as the state has specified, ignore it.

I hope this helps.
 
Dateline New Braunfels, TX. Feb 3, '99; 10:40AM

I went to Wal-Mart and met with the store manager (at the moment), a Mr. Kelley Warren. He was extremely nice. After introductions and my assurance that I was an unarmed CHL instructor representing some of my students, I delivered the Wal-Mart Corporate Policy to him. He read it. We discussed several related subjects at some length. I sympathized with his predicament (a CHL holder was involved in some public problem in his store).

I explained I wanted to show good faith, therefore I further explained that the sign on the door did not constitute legal notice that CHL holders dare not enter. He noted the sign says something to the effect, "this includes legally concealed handguns". (Exact wording not known. I misplaced the polaroid I took of the sign and door.)

I explained that the law requires specific language, block letters at least one inch high on a contrasting background in both English and Spanish and directed him to check at the state police office (just across the interstate) for the proper verbage, etc. He appreciated my explanation and thanked me.

Mr. Warren promised to give the message to the "overall" store manager, Mr. Mark Miller.

I pointed to a sign (we were in the Customer Service area) which proclaimed Wal-Mart "buys American" whenever possible. I told him, "That's one of the biggest reasons I like to shop at Wal-Mart." We chatted more, quite amicably, I promised I would pass on this info to my friends, (Yes, Rich, I told him about The Firing Line) and I would be back when I was again welcome.

We parted smiling and friendly. Time will tell about Mr. Miller.

The snit continues...
 
Dennis,
You might point out to Mr. Miller that if the CHL holder was brannishing, or even exposing the Handgun without cause, there are legal remedies to the Problem, and that person would no longer be a CHL holder.

Just as you should point out that it would be improper of you to Picket all Wal-Marts because you disagree with one store, it is also improper to distrust all CHL holders because one acted poorly.

If the CHL holder didn't act improperly what is the complaint?
 
Ray,

Thanks, good idea!

Wal-Mart folks won't talk about the CHL incident, but I get the impression the CHL holder's weapon was visible and another shopper didn't like it and an argument began between two shoppers (1 CHL, 1 Non-CHL).

Again, this is guesswork because they wouldn't talk about it.

I already explained to Mr. Warren that, just as different companies have different integrity levels, there is some variance among CHL instructors and schools despite oversight by the (overworked, undermanned) CHL division of DPS (Department of Public Safety). Our school is:
-- First, "by the book".
-- Second, if possible, avoid a conflict. You may be "authorized" to use deadly force but not "justified"; you may be "justified" but not "required". CHL holders are NOT LEOs! Avoidance is usually best. If deadly force is NOT avoidable, or if you CHOOSE to use deadly force, shoot to "stop and/or neutralize" - never shoot a "warning shot", to wound, or to kill! (We teach: double tap; double-double tap; Mozambique, and/or certain other unique techniques depending upon the class (e.g. first-timers, advanced students, LEOs, etc.).
-- Third, in case of conflict, settle it at the lowest possible force level. Eating a little crow is better than being arrested, waiting in jail to be magistrated, making bail, being indicted, defending yourself in court, etc. Even if you win the criminal case, you may be liable in a civil case. Friends, relatives, and strangers will regard you, your family and even your friends differently after an incident involving force. It may affect your employment, etc. etc. The dollar cost of being "right" can ruin you financially.

The right to keep and bear arms is a right - not a privilege. However, it has become a defacto privilege and I will help prosecute anyone who flagrantly abuses that privilege. Wal-Mart and I are on the same side in trying to avoid violence. The reasons to carry include (primarily) deterrence and (secondly) the means to put a stop to violence should it occur.

I mentioned in passing that something like the "Luby's in Killeen" incident could not happen to such an extent with armed, trained CHL holders in his store.

Well, I'm going on too long. Let me stop here.

Thanks again for your suggestions. All are welcome.
 
Whew... the corporate policy does seem reasonable. I would hate to boycott Walmart, they have the cheapest ammo around here (6.69 a box for Winchester 115gr).

I don't know about where you live but the people who work at Walmart around here aren't the brightest lights on the Christmas tree.

Peace...
Keith
 
I have been in the local Wal-Mart carrying openly and have not heard a peep out of anyone. I'm not sure if it is just the Arizona mentality, but thanks for posting the policy!

------------------
John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
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