Victory! Illegal Snooping Law Expires!

G

gunshow

Moderator
The congress has behaved in such a pro government/pro tyranny/rubberstamp way that this is a rare victory for privacy and the constitution. Technically, this disturbing "law" doesn't expire until midnight, but since congress has already recessed, WE THE PEOPLE WON!

The best part is these telecom companies that helped the federal "government" engage in KNOWINGLY ILLEGAL wiretaps will lose their CURRENT immunity. Awesome!

There are 40 lawsuits currently pending against these traitor telecom companies who bowed to government's coercion and helped it commit acts that violated the spirit AND the letter of the law before this expiring law was passed. Bush has been trying to get them retroactive immunity (a giant slap in the face to rule of law), and as I said, this horrible law expiring removes their CURRENT immunity.

If the government needs to tap someone's phone, they STILL can do it by going to the secret rubber stamp court called the "FISA" court. This court never turns down government of course because it's all a sham, but a sham "court" is still a touch better than full blown totally warrantless surveillance.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080216/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Reid and Pelosi are like stopped clocks (only right twice a day), but they are RIGHT ON here:
"Their true concern here is not national security," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said in a statement. "Rather they want to protect the financial interests of telecommunications companies and avoid judicial scrutiny of their warrantless wiretapping program."
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While it might have been necessary after 9/11, it was seriously flawed and had no business existing here in this country. Hopefully, future Americans will look back on it and take pause.
 
I agree with all the sentiment expressed so far in this thread... it's a bad law and it needs to die.

Unfortunately, AFAIK this isn't over yet. The House did pass the bill, though without the telecom immunity provision. So at some point this will go to conference committee, and who knows what will happen then...
 
So how many of you were tapped?

Really, I think this is another example of hysteria. I want the government 'snooping', if this means my children are alive and well. I think we are all starting to forget what happened a few years ago, and how this 'snooping' has helped catch people planning to attack us.

I'm in support of our government doing what ever it takes to prevent another attack. I'm sorry more of you won't agree, but think of it this way. If it prevents even one death, it was worth it....and it has!
 
I'm in support of our government doing what ever it takes to prevent another attack. I'm sorry more of you won't agree, but think of it this way. If it prevents even one death, it was worth it....and it has!



It's interesting that you use the exact phrase used by most anti-gun groups as well as a fair chunk of other anti-whatever groups calling on the government to do something. Are you absolutely sure you want to trade the perception of safety for liberty? Personally I'll pass, little if anything government does is to actually increase our safety.
 
any bets on the end of the story.

Before its over Dybya will make another emergency order allowing the wiretapping to continue. He'll find some obscure way to justify it under hie presidential powers. He seems to be able to justify everything else under protecting us from the evil terrorist surrounding the country.

If nothing else Homeland Security will conviently forget to have the program stopped. Or maybe it was actually part of the Patriot Act and already authorized and no-one told us that part yet.
 
I'm in support of our government doing what ever it takes to prevent another attack.
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Really? Even, say, creating the Soviet Socialist Republic of America, with secret police and political crimes? Because that's what this is all about.
 
Yes, it is quite appalling that people think the way yomama does. All you have to do is imagine a simple mistake or a sweeping provision that includes you as well, and you just may change your opinion.

That is NOT what this country is founded on, we have a presumption of innoncence until PROVEN guilty. This is what is supposed to make America different and better from everyone else.

Would you be in favor of the govt. rounding you up like they did to AMERICANS during WWII because they were descendants of a certain ethnicity? It was all for "safety" and "security" you know. Seriously, put yourself in that situation.

Yes, and I already know your answer, because all people who think the same as you answer the same way. "I have nothing to fear, so I'm not worried."

Exactly, that is as ignorant a statement as anyone can make. It completely ignores the principle of the matter.

Yes, listen to what the other poster said, apply the same logic to your guns. They want all guns banned for the safety of the public, is that fair to you? I mean, you're not a criminal right? Same logic, same process. If you honestly believe that the govt. is only or will only use such power as warrantless surveillance, then you are beyond hope my friend. You're clearly on the wrong side.

Sincerely
 
I want the government 'snooping', if this means my children are alive and well

'snooping' has helped catch people planning to attack us.
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It's also allowed people like Hitler and Saddam to keep their people under their thumbs. 'Snooping' programs had Iraqi citizens reporting their neighbor for crimes the neighbor didn't commit, all because the original citizen was afraid of reporting nothing.

Sometimes there's just nothing you can do to prevent a tragic death, whether it's a terrorist attack we NEVER saw coming, or a drunk driver takes you out on the way home. We all take risks living our lives, and sometimes those risks involve death. Giving away your rights, in this case the right to privacy, is a slippery slope. After being given the right to listen to your calls, they simply need to enact a list of "unmentionable phrases/ideas" and suddenly you're a criminal for saying "We shouldn't be in Iraq". Then add in the fact that we suspended Habeus Corpus and that slope just got re-oiled and Teflon coated.

Let me end by saying: I'm comfortable dying a free man in a terror attack, knowing your children won't have to live in tyranny.
 
You think that snooping law was bad? Just wait till November. I wonder what Barack Obama(who won't even salute the American Flag), or Hillary Clinton will do to your liberties.
 
jfrey123-im gonna have to use that last line for my signiture, glad to know that i am not the only one who shares your thoughts!!
 
You think that snooping law was bad? Just wait till November. I wonder what Barack Obama(who won't even salute the American Flag), or Hillary Clinton will do to your liberties.
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Yes, and they won't even have to pass new laws to get the power to do that. All they have to do is use the shiny tools the Conservatives left in the tool shed at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
 
I'm in support of our government doing what ever it takes to prevent another attack. I'm sorry more of you won't agree, but think of it this way. If it prevents even one death, it was worth it....and it has!
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Here's the real law.
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

That's the right to privacy protection in America.

It was a bad law and the men and women who passed it are bad as well.
The law has expired, time for some political careers to do likewise.
 
Good riddence to a tyrannical law.

My sentiments to those who supported this abomination is the same as Ben Franklin's............."You deserve neither freedom nor security".:barf:
 
Yomama wrote: So how many of you were tapped?
Really, I think this is another example of hysteria. I want the government 'snooping', if this means my children are alive and well. I think we are all starting to forget what happened a few years ago, and how this 'snooping' has helped catch people planning to attack us.

I'm in support of our government doing what ever it takes to prevent another attack. I'm sorry more of you won't agree, but think of it this way. If it prevents even one death, it was worth it....and it has!
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I didn't want to quote your whole message but I needed to in this case. Okay first off, WE ALL ARE BEING TAPPED! Certainly, there is no probable cause to suspect all persons of a crime, and certainly this was done without warrants. Therefore it is illegal.

What's the harm in doing it? It gives the government the ability to spy on everyone's private communications. Both text and voice, as voice is now largely over IP. If you do not see the potential for abuse of that, then I feel sad for you, and for our country that it has people as short sighted as you in it.

And lastly, to the question of one life. Let's ask you the converse that your position is. Is preserving rights and liberty for us all not worth even one life to you? Many have already given their lives to gain us these rights and freedoms. And then come people like you who are frightened by terrorists and would be willing to throw it all down the drain for a perceived safety?

Please tell me I've got you all wrong. :confused:
 
My response

First let me say this is the biggest response I have gotten. Some were respectful, some were not. I will try to convey accordingly.

I think that Pat H explained perfectly where most people here stand on politicians. If you start under the assumption that our ELECTED officials are evil or bad, then you will interpret this as living under tyrany. I however feel that our officials are good people, they may get some things wrong, but they are working for the people and are under paid at the same time.

I also think some are a bit parinoid. We are not living under a Sadam or a Hitler here. Speak with someone who survived these dictators. There are not many. We are far from tyranny here. However, I think people in general want to believe this.

This law was necessary to continue to preserve our freedoms. Again, how many of you were tapped? And don't answer EVERYONE, because that is rediculous. It would take more man power to monitor than we have people. There were warrents issued if possible prior to a tapping, as FISA was so out dated it made it impossible to get an immediate warrent. After information was gathered, before it could be used, a Judge still had to issue the warrent.

Also, the IV ammendment states that you are protected from UNREASONABLE searches. This is not unreasonable to me. I think it is entirely reasonable to have our government working in any way to protect it's citizens. Our men and women died so that our country could continue to protect and preserve, which is what we are trying to do here.

This is the first issue I've noticed that most here are agreeing with the lefties.

I appreciate any other feedback, as I'm happy with the feedback and dialogue.
 
yomama said:
I'm in support of our government doing what ever it takes to prevent another attack.
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Right. :rolleyes:

Can we have another round of the Sedition Acts?

First passed in 1798 (4 Acts), 11 men were charged with sedition and 10 were convicted (the 11th man died while awaiting trial). No BOR then, so it never reached the SCOTUS. Act expired or repealed by 1802 (except the Alien Act. Still with us).

Under the Sedition Act of 1918 (an amendment to the Espionage Act of 1917 - repealed in 1921), more than 2000 prosecutions took place. In Debs v. United States, 249 U.S. 211 (1919), the SCOTUS upheld the conviction (Debs was later pardoned by Pres. Harding).

Please, let's have another round of the same... :barf:
 
I also believe the law should remain. If you have nothing to hide, why worry. If they ever snooped on my conversation I might get embrassed, but who cares if it means stopping an attack on us. If you think that the terrorists will stop trying to do harm to us, you had better wake up.
 
This is for your protection

Good-bye!!! If the government wants to tap overseas go for it but if your taping in U.S. then that is another matter. We must continue to guard our Bill of Rights and when nessary defeat laws that threaten any of them.

This law reminds me of this movie quote:

"A yellow-coded curfew is now in effect. Any unauthorized personnel will be subject to arrest. This is for your protection."
From V for Vendetta
 
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