Vermont CCW
- Thread starter Mr.X
- Start date
Mr. X,
Go to Sensop's Corner and scroll down 'til you see the title "Why a Vermont-style Carry Law?". Click on it and read.
Regards
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Sensop
"Put the spirit at center and the body will find it." - Shino Takazawa, sinsei, hachi dan, Keishinkan do.
(Get your mind right and the body will follow.)
Sensop's Corner
Go to Sensop's Corner and scroll down 'til you see the title "Why a Vermont-style Carry Law?". Click on it and read.
Regards
------------------
Sensop
"Put the spirit at center and the body will find it." - Shino Takazawa, sinsei, hachi dan, Keishinkan do.
(Get your mind right and the body will follow.)
Sensop's Corner
We had this Vermont-style carry law in most
Swiss cantons too, now we need a permit, which
is discretionary.
Completely usesless, now we have more criminals in
our jails because fewer get shot.
"But it saved a life!"
--
how to make a hoplophobe more intelligent?
Shoot them a few holes into the skull, air will
help. Beware of the stink.
Swiss cantons too, now we need a permit, which
is discretionary.
Completely usesless, now we have more criminals in
our jails because fewer get shot.
"But it saved a life!"
--
how to make a hoplophobe more intelligent?
Shoot them a few holes into the skull, air will
help. Beware of the stink.
I'm thinking about moving to Vermont, is this actually the case? I know it's the letter of the law, but has anyone in VT ever been pulled over or had any contact with LE while carrying?
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All men who feel any power of joy in battle know what it is like when the wolf rises in the heart" Theodore Roosevelt
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All men who feel any power of joy in battle know what it is like when the wolf rises in the heart" Theodore Roosevelt
panzerfuehrer
New member
I live here in VT, and am a Fraud Investigator by trade. Although not sworn (yet), I carry every day because of my "clients". The law simply states "intent to harm". Frankly, the Fish and Game laws are more stringent regarding firearms.
I have never had a problem encountering LEO's while carrying, although if I were pulled over, I would do them the courtesy of informing them I was armed before I said anything else.
I have never had a problem encountering LEO's while carrying, although if I were pulled over, I would do them the courtesy of informing them I was armed before I said anything else.
panzerfuehrer
New member
An afterthought....
The only problem I see with the law as it is, is that many states will grant reciprocal recognition to another state's CCW, but what if you are from VT and don't need one?
The only problem I see with the law as it is, is that many states will grant reciprocal recognition to another state's CCW, but what if you are from VT and don't need one?
Mussi,
You Swiss? Do me a favor and go to the Brill's Content Board <www.Brillscontent.com> in the "What do you think of the media" banner you will find a thread titled, simply "Guns."
There is a guy there who thinks the Swiss are safe because they have so many gun regulations. I am shutting down for a week as I build up a computer and won't be able to go on it for a while.
If any of you enjoy debating leftists, Brills is one of the places to go. You will find a couple of conservto-libertarians but not many. Try not to lower yourself to name-calling and ad-hominem. That is the tactic of the left.
Rick
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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
You Swiss? Do me a favor and go to the Brill's Content Board <www.Brillscontent.com> in the "What do you think of the media" banner you will find a thread titled, simply "Guns."
There is a guy there who thinks the Swiss are safe because they have so many gun regulations. I am shutting down for a week as I build up a computer and won't be able to go on it for a while.
If any of you enjoy debating leftists, Brills is one of the places to go. You will find a couple of conservto-libertarians but not many. Try not to lower yourself to name-calling and ad-hominem. That is the tactic of the left.
Rick
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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerfuehrer:
An afterthought....
The only problem I see with the law as it is, is that many states will grant reciprocal recognition to another state's CCW, but what if you are from VT and don't need one?[/quote]
Good for you Panzerfuehrer! What does a Vermont citizen do, after 100% reciprocity exists between states? He has no CCW permit to which to apply reciprocation. Well ... 100% is a little optimistic.
Say, for example, Georgia recognizes every other state's Fireams License. What evidence would a Vermont citizen have to show an LEO or judge in Georgia that he has a right to carry in his home state?
I like simple answers. I suppose either Vermont will begin to issue carry permits or a Vermont driver's license will serve the purpose. A simple statement on the back of the driver's license, to the effect that this document is also John Doe's license to carry would be sufficient.
It's the other forty nine states' problem, not Vermont's.
[This message has been edited by sensop (edited January 25, 2000).]
An afterthought....
The only problem I see with the law as it is, is that many states will grant reciprocal recognition to another state's CCW, but what if you are from VT and don't need one?[/quote]
Good for you Panzerfuehrer! What does a Vermont citizen do, after 100% reciprocity exists between states? He has no CCW permit to which to apply reciprocation. Well ... 100% is a little optimistic.
Say, for example, Georgia recognizes every other state's Fireams License. What evidence would a Vermont citizen have to show an LEO or judge in Georgia that he has a right to carry in his home state?
I like simple answers. I suppose either Vermont will begin to issue carry permits or a Vermont driver's license will serve the purpose. A simple statement on the back of the driver's license, to the effect that this document is also John Doe's license to carry would be sufficient.
It's the other forty nine states' problem, not Vermont's.
[This message has been edited by sensop (edited January 25, 2000).]
Rob Pincus
New member
I lived in Vermont for 4 years and realized that "vermont style CCW" is not the perfect solution that most of the other 49 states' residents think it is.
Lately, there is much talk that addresses the issue that panzer brought up... with reciprcity becoming so popular, Vermonters are screwed.
The bigger problem that I had to deal with when I lived there is that the lack of "empowerment" through a CCW permit meant that any Municipality could pass laws prohibiting Concealed Carry. When I lived there I believe that St. Albans, Montpelier, Burlington and Rutland all had local ordinances preventing the carrying of a concealed loaded weapon. That reduced a Vermonters legal rights in the most populated areas to the very common "open carry" laws that several other states (virginia, Arizona, etc...) have on their books.
Vermont carry is nice in theory, but in practice it is not as great as it seems...
.
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-Essayons
Lately, there is much talk that addresses the issue that panzer brought up... with reciprcity becoming so popular, Vermonters are screwed.
The bigger problem that I had to deal with when I lived there is that the lack of "empowerment" through a CCW permit meant that any Municipality could pass laws prohibiting Concealed Carry. When I lived there I believe that St. Albans, Montpelier, Burlington and Rutland all had local ordinances preventing the carrying of a concealed loaded weapon. That reduced a Vermonters legal rights in the most populated areas to the very common "open carry" laws that several other states (virginia, Arizona, etc...) have on their books.
Vermont carry is nice in theory, but in practice it is not as great as it seems...
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-Essayons
Well, there you go.
'Not the first time a theory ran aground of practical implementation.
'Kinda takes a little shine of that little piece of Second Amendment heaven we think of waaay up there on the border, huh?
[This message has been edited by sensop (edited January 25, 2000).]
'Not the first time a theory ran aground of practical implementation.
'Kinda takes a little shine of that little piece of Second Amendment heaven we think of waaay up there on the border, huh?
[This message has been edited by sensop (edited January 25, 2000).]
panzerfuehrer
New member
Well, I live in St Albans, and am not aware of any local ordinance in my town or anywhere else that prohibits concealed carry. There are several towns that have ordinances against discharge, as in hunting within the village. Although frankly, it would not surprise me if the progressives in Burlington tried to pass such an ordinance.
However, a good number of my LEO associates from those towns know I carry, and have never broached the subject.
This is something I will look into, and will post the results.
However, a good number of my LEO associates from those towns know I carry, and have never broached the subject.
This is something I will look into, and will post the results.
Rob Pincus
New member
Panzer, (I'm a cop, I can say this 
) Don't trust LEOs to know the CCW laws. You'll find more reliable resources on the internet and, if you dare, by calling the District Attorney's offices in the areas mentioned.
I was in VT from 90-94 and those are the only four cities I remember having the ordinances, but I was thinking that Barre might have also.
Let us know what you find out.
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-Essayons
) Don't trust LEOs to know the CCW laws. You'll find more reliable resources on the internet and, if you dare, by calling the District Attorney's offices in the areas mentioned.I was in VT from 90-94 and those are the only four cities I remember having the ordinances, but I was thinking that Barre might have also.
Let us know what you find out.
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-Essayons
panzerfuehrer
New member
So Rob, not only a cop, but you went to Norwich as well....it's a great school.
I am checking into this, and hope to have info in next day or so.
I am checking into this, and hope to have info in next day or so.
Rob Pincus
New member
Yeah, NUCC '94...
I'd've moved back up there in a minute, too, if my wife wasn't convinced that she'd turn into an ice cube.
I had a hard enough time convincing her that Virgnia was still in the "south".
I'd've moved back up there in a minute, too, if my wife wasn't convinced that she'd turn into an ice cube.
I had a hard enough time convincing her that Virgnia was still in the "south".
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I thought the Vermont cities periodically pass local laws but the State courts rule them unconstitutional (state constitution) that is.
I was in Burlington about 3 years ago and there was stink about a guy who may or may not be looney who was caught with a Glock 20.
It wasn't clear if he was menancing with it or the cops were hassling him. But the paper and news clucked about their own laws. VT is as vulnerable as anyplace to antis.
I was in Burlington about 3 years ago and there was stink about a guy who may or may not be looney who was caught with a Glock 20.
It wasn't clear if he was menancing with it or the cops were hassling him. But the paper and news clucked about their own laws. VT is as vulnerable as anyplace to antis.
panzerfuehrer
New member
Vulnerable to antis - yes, and most of them live in the Burlington area.
I didn't want to just call a dispatcher and ask, but did get hold of a good friend at Burlington PD, and was told that the only local ordinance was that CCW is illegal in the municipal parks, like in front of City Hall. Of course these are centers of much drug activity as well. Additionally, there are some state-owned areas where you cannot carry period, such as courthouses.
The guy who was hassled, hmmm. Two incidents come to mind. First, when Bill C. was in town a couple years back, the USSS closed off Church St., the big pedestrian- only shopper's paradise, and set up metal detectors. It is legal to carry there, but apparently they weren't taking any chances. Some guy realized this, and went home, got his piece, and tried to walk through, and was of course, caught. Don't believe he got it back, either.
The second was a "man with gun" call to the same area, coincidentally, and the police found some clown with his iron tucked in waistband. They simply suggested that he may wish to get a proper holster - LOL.
Anyway, I am still checking into the other cities, and will post info as soon as I get it.
I didn't want to just call a dispatcher and ask, but did get hold of a good friend at Burlington PD, and was told that the only local ordinance was that CCW is illegal in the municipal parks, like in front of City Hall. Of course these are centers of much drug activity as well. Additionally, there are some state-owned areas where you cannot carry period, such as courthouses.
The guy who was hassled, hmmm. Two incidents come to mind. First, when Bill C. was in town a couple years back, the USSS closed off Church St., the big pedestrian- only shopper's paradise, and set up metal detectors. It is legal to carry there, but apparently they weren't taking any chances. Some guy realized this, and went home, got his piece, and tried to walk through, and was of course, caught. Don't believe he got it back, either.
The second was a "man with gun" call to the same area, coincidentally, and the police found some clown with his iron tucked in waistband. They simply suggested that he may wish to get a proper holster - LOL.
Anyway, I am still checking into the other cities, and will post info as soon as I get it.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
This was about the summer of '96.
The guy had a Glock 2O IIRC.
He had some history of trouble and
maybe mental illness - or claims of
such.
My old fart memory might be off. But
that's what I remember.
I was in Burlington with my kid doing a
jaunt through New England.
The guy had a Glock 2O IIRC.
He had some history of trouble and
maybe mental illness - or claims of
such.
My old fart memory might be off. But
that's what I remember.
I was in Burlington with my kid doing a
jaunt through New England.