Vaults approved for black powder

H

Hardy

New member
Ok,
A year or so ago I inquired ATF about regulations for selling real black powder. They required an application along w/ fee and you had to have a vault. Of course after ordering BP and placing in vault you would then be inspected. I chose not to do so because insurance would not allow. Now I do not have insurance on store so that alleviates that problem. Also, fire marshall just approved us for our retail store since have reg. extinguisher etc. I have 2 Steel SENTRY fire proof 14'X16' safes w/ 3.5' door w/ combination locks. . Would that be sufficient to hold Goex and pass ATF if I apply for license and order minimum (50) lbs of bp

WBH

Or would I have to buy expensive vault from Dixie or whereever?
 
1230 model #

If I can use these it will let me sell Real B/P. If not I don't know if I can afford a roll around approved vault sold by Dixie. The agent I talked with at the time said it was up to ATF to approve my storage facility. If they don't approve then I'm handcuffed but not necessarillary literally. Just testing waters before I buy bulk bp:)
WBH
 
You'll probably get better info if you call him. That way you can kick around some ideas that may work out better for you than your specific question.
 
Greetings Hardy -

It is not likely that your fireproof safe will meet the requirement for a portable powder magazine. the safes are designed to protect documents and valuable from fire & flood while Powder magazines are designed to vent safely rather than contain an explosion and the portable ones are designed to be easily rolled out in case of fire.

sorry to say you need one of these- a type 4 indoor portable powder magazine:

http://tinyurl.com/powdermagazine

or one built to the specs.
here are all the regs:
http://www.atf.gov/explosives/how-to/explosive-storage-requirements.html
 
The Maine Powder House seems to have the exact same powder vault as Cabela's for $208 with free shipping, a savings of about 1/3 of the price.

http://mainepowderhouse.com/powder-storage-safe/

But note that the customer must line it with 1/4" plywood himself.
One Cabela's customer review indicates that the plywood can be glued in which shouldn't be too difficult.
 
Hardy, it looks like arcticap has pointed out a very economical solution. That is, $208 delivered little worry about whether or not the BATF will give you a passing grade. Note that the Maine Powder House also states: "Box to be lined w/ 1/4″ plywood or similar material by purchaser". That price includes the cost of shipping. It would appear that the unit from the MPH includes the casters whereas it would appear that caster are add-ons. I might have to get one myself!
 
Last edited:
You would have to meet the same requirements of a mag used to store anything but high explosives (1.1) or bulk salutes in the pyrotechnic world. The requirements really aren't that extensive. Non sparking interior surface, ie. plywood, non sparking paint, the hinges on the inside of the safe, ect. Most guys in pyrotechnics use job boxes modified to ATF approval. In the state I live, they also require wheels to be on the type 4 mag. Do some looking into it. It isn't that bad. The biggest pain of a mag is that you have to inventory and sign in it at least once every week.
 
Thanks everyone. I thought about this 2 years ago but going between RE appraisals and having a small BP shop I didn't follow thru on getting licensed to do real BP.

Unfortuately for a small operation like mine-- it appears the cost now outweighs the return. trp 7 3f is a hot commodity. The subs are getting better w/out regulations. In fact I heard Goex is now making a sub and I heard it is not good? Is it? If I buy everything I need and want and what everyone else needs and want, I better have a dang good investor! Also, (getting back to BP) I would have to not only buy vault but have to have 50lbs in stock. Thats a lot of money. Gonna apply for licence --90 day hold then go from there. And most folks that want real BP belong to reanactment groups that they buy from their sources. I keep on tryin. I still try to keep store from being thrift shop and I do have 3rd colts in there--wish you didn't bash them as much. I have some seconds too. But I had success selling 3rds. I am now having trouble finding them at prices I can re sell. This has not been an easy game but we have a lot of fun and met some CHARACTORS of course. I WILL NOT WHINE. I am glad I opened this store-period.
WBH
 
Hardy,

I'm curious about costs and was wondering if you could educate me. Could you please fill in the details to the questions below. Thanks in advance.

1. How much does 777 cost you?
2. How much do yo sell 777 for?
3. How many cans (1 lb containers) of 777 do you sell per month (average)?
4. What is the additional cost of a license to sell real black powder?
 
Clembert

I think I order pyrodex and now trip 7 from E Bros not far from us. If I pick it it up I do not pay hazzard fee, Pyrodex I think retails in our store for 25 Trip 7 27 Trip 7 2f 27. I Have to buy at least $150 of supplies on each order. Our next order is 4 boxes of 44's for c/b 4 cans of Trip 7 and 3 cans of pyro--2 sleaves of 50C 225 grain and 2 of 245 plus one CVA inline rifle. We sell Rem 11 caps for $6.89. I am going to apply for BP license and when approved I will decide on that. You know--the less gov requiremernts the happier I am. I like the Pietta Rems and conversions but conversions are on back order. I do have 1 poilished steel Rem w/ conversion. that you would luv:)
 
Oh, the license is 25.00 but the cost of stocking is high. You have to buy 50 lbs at $14 to 16 and have a $250 to $500 vault to store it in. I am not sure at this writing if yo have to have insurance but figure at least over $1000 to start. And the substitutes are gaining more popularity. And the real BP shooters already got a deal on the stuff. Tough! Ain't it!!

WBH
 
You can buy powder from Jack's Powder Keg with a 25 lb minimum.

Goex 1FG-4FG... $350 (25 lbs.) $14 per lb
Diamondback 3FFF...$275 (25lbs.) $11 per lb

Shipping and HAZMAT is included in those prices above. And...there isn't local sales tax.

I hear that Diamondback is actually a pretty decent powder. I still think that some folks don't realize that real BP has some pretty good advantages over the substitute powders. My guess is that they just haven't been educated yet and assume that Pyrodex is the way to go.

As far as the powder magazine I personally would not considered it an expensed item at $208. It has value, even as a used item.

p.s. Usually when you conduct a poll and ask folks why they bother with Pyrodex the MOST common answer: BECAUSE I CAN NOT GET REAL BLACK POWDER LOCALLY AND WHEN I JUST WANT TO BUY ONE OR TWO POUNDS IT JUST ISN'T WORTH IT BECAUSE OF THE ADDED COST OF HAZMAT AND SHIPPING.

I'd be surprised if you offered Diamondback for $18 - $20 per pound that folks would snub their nose at it. Your cost...$11 per pound.
 
Last edited:
Hardy, if you can stock items Wal Mart doesn't you may do better. They're seriously undercutting you on prices of powder and caps during season.
 
Thanks-something to really study on. But it'll be 100 days before i get license anyway--just planning ahead. Hope I'm still in biz then!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top