Utah Hunting?
- Thread starter Bella
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FrankenMauser
New member
You don't hear about hunting here for three reasons:
1. The person you're talking to found a quiet little place in the back country, where the hunting is still good, and the trophies are massive. They don't want to share.
2. When you come here to hunt, you don't find herds of Deer, Elk and Antelope; you find herds of Californians and Oregonians wandering the meadows. (I'm not kidding. Herds of 30-50, crammed so close together it sounds like WWIII when a target wanders into sight! Fights often break out, while they decide who actually gets to tag the mangled carcass - if anyone actually hit it.)
3. Too many hunters. Too many idiots. Not enough animals. Not enough access to good hunting land. (Our private land vs public land access methods, and the way different areas are recognized has been changing for a decade or more. We have ended up with a system that makes hunting on private land extremely difficult, unless you are "connected", or have some cash to fork over for a "trespass fee". When the idiots go chasing the rare deer onto private land... things get ugly, and the system gets even more difficult to navigate.)
4. (The real reason) All the Utah hunters are in Wyoming and Colorado.
FrankenMauser
New member
Sorry for that last post. I had to do it.
I honestly cannot recommend that anyone hunts here. It's not that I'm trying to be a greedy hunter, and save everything for myself. It's that I really despise what has happened to our state. The whole system is broken, and the Department of Wildlife Resources (DWR) doesn't have enough power to fight other governmental agencies that are contributing to the issues.
I could go on, and on, about the hunting situation here, but it really comes down to a few things:
1. Too many hunters.
2. Not enough animals.
3. The DWR makes more money off non-residents (per capita), than residents. So, we have far too many Californians coming in (Oregon residents are a drop in the bucket, compared to the Eureka state).
Side note about non-residents: Don't think that I despise them. I don't. I really appreciate the additional funds coming in, to help with wildlife. It's just that the system is broken, and I see a lot more non-residents doing stupid things than residents.
As for actual hunting....
We do still have some trophy quality herds running around. They're almost entirely on private land, or Indian reservations, though. It can be a complicated (and sometimes expensive) ordeal to get a tag. The rest of the good herds on public land (or private with unlimited public access) are so sought-after, that it can take more than 15 years of continuously applying for a tag, before the person actually draws one.
A good example of the current plight:
We have a limited-entry (hah! they're all limited entry...) antelope unit, that currently has a wait time of 17+ years, before the average applicant draws their tag. (And until last year, or the year before; if you forgot to apply in one of those years, you weren't forgiven. You got to start over, at the back of the line!)
And, of course, I can't forget the Game Wardens. When I was a kid, I always heard stories about how crooked and nasty Wyoming game wardens were. I believed it for quite a while. Then, I got to see the wardens in my home state a bit more, and had more 'run-ins' with the Wyoming wardens. If I could, I'd have every Wyoming warden I've met come to my house for dinner. They've been wonderful, in every encounter we've had (including one where a member of my party got a warning ticket).
But Utah... Utah's game wardens have become the enemy. They are absolutely hell-bent on giving everyone in their path a ticket - for whatever they can. It may be that they're so frustrated with the system, that this is their way of relieving some tension. It may be that the DWR is hiring idiots. It may be the huge increase in poachers, in the last decade. I don't know. All I know, is that encountering a Utah game warden is something I dread (and I don't mess around with hunting regulations!).
I don't like hunting here. I do most of mine in Wyoming; where the people and animals are still friendly.
I honestly cannot recommend that anyone hunts here. It's not that I'm trying to be a greedy hunter, and save everything for myself. It's that I really despise what has happened to our state. The whole system is broken, and the Department of Wildlife Resources (DWR) doesn't have enough power to fight other governmental agencies that are contributing to the issues.
I could go on, and on, about the hunting situation here, but it really comes down to a few things:
1. Too many hunters.
2. Not enough animals.
3. The DWR makes more money off non-residents (per capita), than residents. So, we have far too many Californians coming in (Oregon residents are a drop in the bucket, compared to the Eureka state).
Side note about non-residents: Don't think that I despise them. I don't. I really appreciate the additional funds coming in, to help with wildlife. It's just that the system is broken, and I see a lot more non-residents doing stupid things than residents.
As for actual hunting....
We do still have some trophy quality herds running around. They're almost entirely on private land, or Indian reservations, though. It can be a complicated (and sometimes expensive) ordeal to get a tag. The rest of the good herds on public land (or private with unlimited public access) are so sought-after, that it can take more than 15 years of continuously applying for a tag, before the person actually draws one.
A good example of the current plight:
We have a limited-entry (hah! they're all limited entry...) antelope unit, that currently has a wait time of 17+ years, before the average applicant draws their tag. (And until last year, or the year before; if you forgot to apply in one of those years, you weren't forgiven. You got to start over, at the back of the line!)
And, of course, I can't forget the Game Wardens. When I was a kid, I always heard stories about how crooked and nasty Wyoming game wardens were. I believed it for quite a while. Then, I got to see the wardens in my home state a bit more, and had more 'run-ins' with the Wyoming wardens. If I could, I'd have every Wyoming warden I've met come to my house for dinner. They've been wonderful, in every encounter we've had (including one where a member of my party got a warning ticket).
But Utah... Utah's game wardens have become the enemy. They are absolutely hell-bent on giving everyone in their path a ticket - for whatever they can. It may be that they're so frustrated with the system, that this is their way of relieving some tension. It may be that the DWR is hiring idiots. It may be the huge increase in poachers, in the last decade. I don't know. All I know, is that encountering a Utah game warden is something I dread (and I don't mess around with hunting regulations!).
I don't like hunting here. I do most of mine in Wyoming; where the people and animals are still friendly.
I can vouche for this...I used to live in Northern Utah when I was in HS, and even then (the mid '90s) hunting was very enjoyable. So sad to see that in so few years, something good can be destroyed by droves of incondsiderate "slob" hunters. It's not quite that bad here in Oregon, but time's are a changin, it won't be long. Kinda makes me want to take up bow hunting.
I go out of my way to get as far away from the "populated roads" as my legs will carry me, and I'm able to find some peace and quiet in the hills...for now.
I go out of my way to get as far away from the "populated roads" as my legs will carry me, and I'm able to find some peace and quiet in the hills...for now.
reloader28
New member
I have a friend of mine that used to live in Utah. Years ago he bought a life time deer tag and he gets a tag in the mail every year even tho hes moved. He says the hunting is terrible and has even thought of giving up his tag. He likes to go back down and take the grandkids out hunting in hopes of seeing a buck. Otherwise, he wouldnt even go back.
Rangefinder
New member
I can verify all the above said---it's just plain stupid how hunting is run there. I lived in SW and SE Utah for quite a few years, and would not hunt there after seeing it for myself. I happened to be driving through one area on opening day of rifle season (Duck Creek area outside of Cedar City). When I got to the meadows at the top of the pass there were trucks parked along the highway every 50 feet for the entire length of the meadow--which is several miles--all waiting for something to walk out of the tree line. I thought to myself "Wow, this is hunting here? I'll just call myself an outdoorsman and these quacks can have the 'hunting' aspect of it..."
Yup--it's just plain embarrassing to be associated with that kind of ignorance.
Yup--it's just plain embarrassing to be associated with that kind of ignorance.
FrankenMauser
New member
Wow! I can't believe I forgot to mention the short hunting seasons, that got even shorter this year.
In order to "cut down on poaching", and "reduce pressure on the animals", Utah has been shortening hunting seasons for the last 30+ years. (I won't go into the irony of how stressed the herds get with the shorter seasons.)
This year, we get 5 days (opening on a Saturday) for any-weapon deer in most areas, but only 2 or 3 days in the most sought-after areas.
That doesn't sound too terrible, right?
Well, consider that there will be over 110,000 hunters, and an estimated total 450,000 people (hunters and non-hunters) after those deer - all at the same time. And that's just for the Buck Deer hunt. When you include hunters with doe tags (coinciding with the Buck season), it increases by more than 10%.
For just Buck and Doe Deer, the opening weekend of the any-weapon hunt is estimated to have nearly 500,000 people chasing the herds in this state.
Over 15% of Utah's population moves into the mountains and plateaus in one, massive movement... for a single weekend. It's not an enjoyable time, if you're a hunter that respects nature.
Those numbers may not seem bad to people used to hunting on 1/2 acre plots, or sitting on their grandpa's 20 acre tree farm. I know there are several states that have many more hunters than Utah, but they're not all out butting heads for the limited, stressful, short season Utah provides. You can't cram people together like that with western herds. It stresses the ever-living crap out of the animals, and puts idiot hunters in a rush to 'shoot one before the other guy'.
Elk and Antelope hunts aren't nearly as bad, but our any-weapon Buck Deer hunt is best equated to the Derby-style crab fishing that prompted the first season of Deadliest Catch. Everyone shoots out of the gate, rushes to the animals, and does whatever they have to to fill their tag - regardless of the collateral damage to the ecosystem, animals, roads, and everything else they come in contact with.
In order to "cut down on poaching", and "reduce pressure on the animals", Utah has been shortening hunting seasons for the last 30+ years. (I won't go into the irony of how stressed the herds get with the shorter seasons.)
This year, we get 5 days (opening on a Saturday) for any-weapon deer in most areas, but only 2 or 3 days in the most sought-after areas.
That doesn't sound too terrible, right?
Well, consider that there will be over 110,000 hunters, and an estimated total 450,000 people (hunters and non-hunters) after those deer - all at the same time. And that's just for the Buck Deer hunt. When you include hunters with doe tags (coinciding with the Buck season), it increases by more than 10%.
For just Buck and Doe Deer, the opening weekend of the any-weapon hunt is estimated to have nearly 500,000 people chasing the herds in this state.
Over 15% of Utah's population moves into the mountains and plateaus in one, massive movement... for a single weekend. It's not an enjoyable time, if you're a hunter that respects nature.
Those numbers may not seem bad to people used to hunting on 1/2 acre plots, or sitting on their grandpa's 20 acre tree farm. I know there are several states that have many more hunters than Utah, but they're not all out butting heads for the limited, stressful, short season Utah provides. You can't cram people together like that with western herds. It stresses the ever-living crap out of the animals, and puts idiot hunters in a rush to 'shoot one before the other guy'.
Elk and Antelope hunts aren't nearly as bad, but our any-weapon Buck Deer hunt is best equated to the Derby-style crab fishing that prompted the first season of Deadliest Catch. Everyone shoots out of the gate, rushes to the animals, and does whatever they have to to fill their tag - regardless of the collateral damage to the ecosystem, animals, roads, and everything else they come in contact with.
Crankylove
New member
Sadly, I see that same thing every year........be it elk, deer, ducks, or doves......And if an animal does finally show itself.........there is so much lead in the air you can practically see it. You get torn between the urge to laugh at all the idiots.........or cry when you realize what "hunting" has turned into.
The last deer hunt I was on (between Bear Lake and Logan, Ut), my brother and I spent about 4 hours hiking into the meanest, nastiest, most inaccessable area we could find. We were several miles (and hours) from the nearest road, and finally started getting a glimpse of the deer we were after........and then, like clockwork, a group of "hunters" on ATV's came flying up through the trees and chased the deer over into the next county. They were in National Forest land, miles from the nearest trail, leaving huge ruts and ripping up vegation left and right.........and the forest service doesn't care to enforce its own regulations (it you can even find a ranger, they seem to disappear during every hunting season) so the ATV's and side-by-sides run wild, and the game wardens don't care about ATV's off the trail (Not our problem, talk to the Forest Service mentality). Unfortunately, it is so common of an event, when you go out, you don't wonder if the ATV's will show up, its always just a matter of when. Combine that with too many hunters in smaller and smaller areas, too much of the public access lands turned into the CWMU's, private land that requires a second mortgage to pay tresspass fees, and shorter and shorter seasons and its no wonder Utah isn't a hunting hot spot. Too many people get so frustrated during the hunt, it turns into doing whatever it takes to get a deer, and rules be damned. As already posted, it sometimes turns into a screaming and pushing match over who gets to tag a deer that five different hunters were shooting at, and that was hit 8 or 10 times.
Northslope Nimrod
New member
There are some decent areas of Utah....just not many on public land.
The Big Game program in Utah is poorly ran. Utah is not mentioned because we border Idaho, Wyoming and Colorado, all of which are much better. Better hunting and better programs.
We DO have quite a few elk in the state. The deer population has been down for several years due to a hard winter a number of years ago and to COUGARS. Fish and Game Dept. will deny that Cougars are a problem but I see them fairly regularly lately. I see their tracks all the time. Growing up, I never even saw a track. The deer are coming back however. Better each year.
The biggest problem is the CWMU's (Cooperative Wildlife Management Units). These are private areas that are granted permits by the state and then sold to the highest bidders. A few of the permits are saved for "Draw Hunts." The days of paying some rancher $50 to trespass on his land and take a deer are over. It is a rich man's game now.
Hunt with a bow or muzzle loader and your hunting experience will be better. (better time to hunt, less people, etc)
The Big Game program in Utah is poorly ran. Utah is not mentioned because we border Idaho, Wyoming and Colorado, all of which are much better. Better hunting and better programs.
We DO have quite a few elk in the state. The deer population has been down for several years due to a hard winter a number of years ago and to COUGARS. Fish and Game Dept. will deny that Cougars are a problem but I see them fairly regularly lately. I see their tracks all the time. Growing up, I never even saw a track. The deer are coming back however. Better each year.
The biggest problem is the CWMU's (Cooperative Wildlife Management Units). These are private areas that are granted permits by the state and then sold to the highest bidders. A few of the permits are saved for "Draw Hunts." The days of paying some rancher $50 to trespass on his land and take a deer are over. It is a rich man's game now.
Hunt with a bow or muzzle loader and your hunting experience will be better. (better time to hunt, less people, etc)
FrankenMauser
New member
Bella, does that provide some reason behind not hearing about Utah hunting, except when it's a gun-company-sponsored hunt for a big name magazine?
I have been feeling the opposite about Cougar. The DWR says their numbers are increasing, but I've been seeing fewer and fewer bits of evidence that they're around (fewer tracks, fewer kills, fewer recently-abandoned dens).
I still feel that the DWR is to blame.
Do you remember their public apology to Elk hunters in '94 or '95? They published articles in the Deseret News, Salt Lake Tribune, and all of the Big Game hunting proclamations. The articles apologized for the mis-management of the Elk herds, while they were trying to help the Deer recover from over-hunting (out-right slaughter) during the '60s and '70s (and mis-management in the '80s). In return, they were going to put forth a massive effort to get the Elk herds back to good numbers.
Do you remember the public apology to Deer hunters in '98? They ignored the papers, but published an apology in the Big Game proclamations. It apologized for ignoring the Deer herds, and letting them slip back to low numbers while they focused on the Elk herds (and acknowledged that Elk will almost always push Deer out of the same area - another reason for the decline).
Since the '98 apology, they've been pretty tight-lipped about anything effecting big game in Utah (unless they get a chance to point out predation of the herds, or high rates of collisions with automobiles).
The only exception I can think of, is the acknowledgement 3(?) years ago, that most of the deer along the Salt Lake Valley die of old age. So few hunters are successful from City Creek Canyon (in the north), to Corner Canyon (in the south), that the vast majority of deer are dying of old age. Conditions had been created that made hunting (even with a bow) so ridiculous, that the areas were simply ignored by most hunters. (Some of the recent changes may help fix this, but I don't think it will do much.)
Where the Deer are... we can't hunt.
Where we can hunt... there aren't any Deer.
I see more Deer dead in the suburbs, than I do in the mountains...
Northslope Nimrod said:
I have been feeling the opposite about Cougar. The DWR says their numbers are increasing, but I've been seeing fewer and fewer bits of evidence that they're around (fewer tracks, fewer kills, fewer recently-abandoned dens).
I still feel that the DWR is to blame.
Do you remember their public apology to Elk hunters in '94 or '95? They published articles in the Deseret News, Salt Lake Tribune, and all of the Big Game hunting proclamations. The articles apologized for the mis-management of the Elk herds, while they were trying to help the Deer recover from over-hunting (out-right slaughter) during the '60s and '70s (and mis-management in the '80s). In return, they were going to put forth a massive effort to get the Elk herds back to good numbers.
Do you remember the public apology to Deer hunters in '98? They ignored the papers, but published an apology in the Big Game proclamations. It apologized for ignoring the Deer herds, and letting them slip back to low numbers while they focused on the Elk herds (and acknowledged that Elk will almost always push Deer out of the same area - another reason for the decline).
Since the '98 apology, they've been pretty tight-lipped about anything effecting big game in Utah (unless they get a chance to point out predation of the herds, or high rates of collisions with automobiles).
The only exception I can think of, is the acknowledgement 3(?) years ago, that most of the deer along the Salt Lake Valley die of old age. So few hunters are successful from City Creek Canyon (in the north), to Corner Canyon (in the south), that the vast majority of deer are dying of old age. Conditions had been created that made hunting (even with a bow) so ridiculous, that the areas were simply ignored by most hunters. (Some of the recent changes may help fix this, but I don't think it will do much.)
Where the Deer are... we can't hunt.
Where we can hunt... there aren't any Deer.
I see more Deer dead in the suburbs, than I do in the mountains...
All of the above posts pretty much cover Utah.
I wish Utah fish and game would take some lessons from Wyoming, Idaho, Washington and Colorado, they seem to try and figure out what's best, Utah figured out that tags mean money
I really think Wyoming and Idaho have the right approach, listen to the hunters, and manage the habitat not the animals, good habitat means the critters do well.
Utah is not all bad, but a few changes would make a world of difference.
I wish Utah fish and game would take some lessons from Wyoming, Idaho, Washington and Colorado, they seem to try and figure out what's best, Utah figured out that tags mean money
I really think Wyoming and Idaho have the right approach, listen to the hunters, and manage the habitat not the animals, good habitat means the critters do well.
Utah is not all bad, but a few changes would make a world of difference.
Countertop
New member
Last time I was in Utah I probably saw 50 or 60 mule deer, a couple of Doe Elks, and the guy I was visiting was just hanging the 600 class trophy he had taken last year.
Unfortunately, it wasn't really deer or elk season (and its tough AND expensive to get tags out of state), but we shot a ton of coyotes.
Unfortunately, it wasn't really deer or elk season (and its tough AND expensive to get tags out of state), but we shot a ton of coyotes.
I killed my first deer in Utah back in '82. Lots of idiots hunting there. People will sit up on the top of the ridges and roll boulders down the hill trying to scare up deer.
The only way to get a good hunt is to get WAY back in the back country away from the crowds. The ones that are serious about it use horses and pack in. They'll spend a day or more on horseback just getting away from the crowds before they set up camp.
The only way to get a good hunt is to get WAY back in the back country away from the crowds. The ones that are serious about it use horses and pack in. They'll spend a day or more on horseback just getting away from the crowds before they set up camp.