USP and the .45 Super

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Zack Kitchen

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I'm in the market for a handgun that can handle the .45 super cartridge. Is it true that the H&K USP can handle the .45 super without any special modification (ie: right out of the box) and if so, can anyone give me any references, reviewers, or gun researchers that have come to that conclusion. I'd like to base my choice on data, rahter than hearsay.
Also, can any of you USP owners tell me how much you like the weapon and if you would reccomend it. I already own a couple of SIGs and I understand that the USP has similar action.
Thanx
 
Zack,

The HK USP .45 will chamber and fire the .45 Super round, absolutely.

However, just keep in mind that any problems resulting from the use of the .45 Super round
will void your warranty from HK.

I was at HK this past Thursday, the 28th and asked the Director of Commercial sales about this and this was his answer.

Neither the gun or the box indicates the use of .45 Super ammunition. It is a .45 ACP weapon. You can use the Super round all you want but you pay for any frame damage or other possible damage and their have been a few guns returned for this and NOT warrantied.

It's your $$ and you can surely do with them what you want.

The full size HK USP is a fine weapon. Probably the softest recoiling .45 ACP on the market today and more than adequately accurate for most applications.




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"New Jersey... The First Communist State in The Union"

Jim

www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/3887/home.html
 
I've been firing the .45 Super through my USP .45 without problems (about 100 rounds so far). I did, however, change the spring to a stiffer aftermarket one from Wolff Springs, just as an extra precautionary measure.
I've read that the USP .45 and the S&W 625 (revolver) are the only guns that will safely shoot the .45 Super without modifications.
The .45 Super is a real "blast" to shoot! :-)
 
I am very happy with the USP45. It is extremely reliable, handling every kind of bullet I have fed it, mostly reloads. Triton ammo is the only manufacturer for 45 Super ammo that I know of. I have not fired any of these yet but I have fired Triton HiVel +P 185 gr JHPs. These are rated on the box to be 1150 fps and 543 ft lbs ME. I recently bought a chronograph and clocked these factory loads and they were screaming at 1140 fps up to 1151 fps from my USP, very close to advertised!!! The recoil was manageable but strong. I recovered all of the spent cases and half of the cases were not reusable as they had a bulge with slight separation, I assume at the 6 O'clock position. Before trying the Super I plan on buying the stiffest Wolff spring(as already mentioned), which comes with an extra power firing pin spring. I probably will work up a load on my own, getting some new brass from Starline. I want to do this slowly and check velocities and case condition after firing. Even my regular 45 brass I check carefully and I always keep brass used for +P separate so I can check for bulges. The USP barrel is VERY reliable in functioning, but I think the unsupported chamber at the feed ramp is part of the reason why. Another modification, if I can come up with the money is to buy a Jarvis or Barsto aftermarket barrel which is fully supported.

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Thanx for the info gents. Do any of you know if anyone has actually done a formal test of the USP with the .45 super? Perhaps Guns & Ammo, Shooting Times, etc?
 
Here's my review reposted from GT: [snip]

First impression on opening the box is that this ammo is very *shiny*. The polished nickel cases look fantastic and the headstamp reads: TRITON and 45 SUPER to allow you to separate your cases after a trip to the range. The box also has markings specific to this build being for the US Navy Special Operations Command for use in the Mk. 23 SOCOM. Complete with the Navy SEAL eagle and trident, the packaging conveys the attention paid to the construction of the cartridges.

The 185gr truncated cone, flat point bullets were FMJ and seated to just below the angled edge of the TC. These cartridges were rated at 1350 fps, with close to 750 ft/lbs of force transmitted at that velocity. Without a chronograph, I have no way to test this claim and will leave that to the factory. Recoil effects compared to 'standard' target ammo prevents me from doubting this claim.

At the range, firing from an H&K USP45 full-size (check Triton web page for notes on use), I saved the .45 Super test until the end of the shooting session. I had been working up a .45 load for IDPA using benchrest and patience, and had fired 50-60 rounds before trying the .45 Super. Loading one round of S&B .45 Auto in the top of the magazine for recoil comparison, the blast and recoil of the .45 Super was immense.

A friend sitting nearby heard the first shot and thought nothing of it. On succeeding shots, he thought that I'd switched to firing one of the rifles that I'd brought along on the trip! He was surprised to hear the blast and recoil coming from the docile handgun that I'd been working with all morning.

From the shooter perspective, the USP45f is known for it's smooth and easily controllable recoil - these traits are retained even when firing the .45 Super. To a large degree, the compound, 2-stage recoil spring mechanism proprietary to the H&K USP's soaks up much of the initial recoil, although muzzle flip is pronounced, and a distinct 'snap' can be felt when the slide reaches maximum travel. This results in an unusual impulse at the most rearward slide travel, followed by another 'snap' as the slide is forced forward under recoil spring tension.

While certainly not a detriment to accurate shot placement, this recoil sensation takes some getting used to, and is certainly not the common recoil of a standard .45, often referred to as a 'push'.

This snappy recoil is accompanied by the cases being thrown into next week! My friend and I spent some time tracking where the casings had gone, and they ended up approximately 15-20 feet to the right 4-5 feet to the rear of the shooter (when firing offhand). Standard ammunition results in 2-3 feet right, and 1-2 feet to the rear of the shooter, for comparison.

Downrange accuracy resulted in an approximately 4" group at 15 yards, which was certainly a result of shooter flinch after the first shot. My friend was able to produce a very similar group under the exact same conditions. My impression is that a steady diet of .45 Super would result in more consistent and accurate patterns and shooters familiar with big-bore revolvers or the Desert Eagle will take to the recoil more easily.

In conclusion, I am very impressed with the quality of craftsmanship in the Triton .45 Super cartridge, and as a reloader can appreciate the exhaustive hours of development that went into producing this ammunition. With the performance increases gained, the cost of this ammunition certainly puts it on my ammo shopping list.

With the proper modifications, most 1911-style handguns, and many others, can benefit from the latest in .45 caliber handgun ammunition - in my view, the modifications would be money well spent and had my USP45f not been acceptable for use, as is, I would certainly be sending off another handgun for modification. Even in a cartridge as old as the .45, advances in technology of powder, bullets, and cases result in benefits not imagined 100 years ago.

I highly recommend Triton's .45 Super for your recreational shooting and perhaps hunting applications where legal.
 
Excellent Review LongDuck! Your impressions are pretty much identical to mine! However, I did modify my USP .45 with Wolff's 14 lb spring (stock is 13 lbs on the USP45f). They also have a 16 lb spring, but I opted for the 14, as I didn't want reliability with ordinary .45 auto ammo to be adversely affected.
With the 14lb spring, the spent casings from my USP shooting the Naval Special Warfare .45 Super did not get ejected as far as yours did. I only noticed them getting ejected a few feet farther.
My HK P7M13 ejects the casings VERY far... with every shot at the indoor range, I can hear it hit the ceiling then bounce around. I don't think there is another gun that ejects the spent casings so far, so forcefully.
 
I used to know a couple guys from HK that fire SUPER out of there USPs quite often.

Yes - you can... But you do so at your own risk.
(minimal risk - its safe but your going to wear out your gun quicker)

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
George,

I know several people at HK personally. Who are the couple of guys?
I would like to speak to them about this and HK's policy on the .45 Super.
I should be back at HK in VA in a couple of weeks if you could get back to me before then.

Thanks...

------------------
"New Jersey... The First Communist State in The Union"

Jim

www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/3887/home.html
 
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