So this is what I do. All my pistols are high round count..I kinda have to trade and buy new or rebuild. I am curious if anyone has any idea-as long as one keeps recoil springs and such replaced on schedual, how many rounds can I put through my springfield 1911a1 and still have a reliable EDC? Every 2 shoots I strip my 1911 and check all parts and even measure h/d ammo with a digital caliper, so I am very thurough.
Using your high round count pistols as EDC
- Thread starter Gunslick
- Start date
turtlehead
New member
OK, I'll bite. Give us a rundown on how many rounds you shoot each month.
I keep two of whatever pistol I decide to carry for this purpose. Same setup for sights, grip, mag release, slide release, etc. I beat up on one at the range and in courses and the other gets a thousand rounds through it to test for function and reliability, then gets shot periodically to ensure that function continues. I have two Glock 19s for this reason. I do count the range/course time on the Glock 19 towards the Glock 26 I often carry, I just make sure to practice mag changes with the 26 during dry fire as those feel a bit different due to the shorter grip (I'd count usage of the same types just in different sizes).
Now all this said, we have members on this forum with tens of thousands of rounds through pistols, and some over one hundred thousand and those pistols are still going strong. Maintenance seems to be the key.
Now all this said, we have members on this forum with tens of thousands of rounds through pistols, and some over one hundred thousand and those pistols are still going strong. Maintenance seems to be the key.
I have two Springfield 1911's. I had both customized and gave my LEO son one of them.
I have found that some 1911's need a recoil spring and firing pin spring change every 5000 rounds or so. I have a Colt 1911 that went about 30,000 rounds before I needed to change springs.
My EDC 1911 recoil springs get changed every 3000 rounds, whether it needs it or not. A set of springs is about $7. I am not going to wonder if the spring will fail when I need the gun the most. My investment takes the worry away.
I actually had a 1911 spring fail during a training period. I had shot the crap out of the gun prior to attending a four day course. During the second day, on about the second or third round of a magazine, the gun went click. So I thought I had a type one malfunction. Tap, flip, rack. Good to go, or so I thought, and I got another click. I took a seat and examined the case. The primer was getting a hit so i took a spare set of springs out of my range bag and did a quick recoil and firing pin spring change. Back into the action and have shot several thousand more rounds with out so much as a hiccup. You just never know when a spring can fail.
I have found that some 1911's need a recoil spring and firing pin spring change every 5000 rounds or so. I have a Colt 1911 that went about 30,000 rounds before I needed to change springs.
My EDC 1911 recoil springs get changed every 3000 rounds, whether it needs it or not. A set of springs is about $7. I am not going to wonder if the spring will fail when I need the gun the most. My investment takes the worry away.
I actually had a 1911 spring fail during a training period. I had shot the crap out of the gun prior to attending a four day course. During the second day, on about the second or third round of a magazine, the gun went click. So I thought I had a type one malfunction. Tap, flip, rack. Good to go, or so I thought, and I got another click. I took a seat and examined the case. The primer was getting a hit so i took a spare set of springs out of my range bag and did a quick recoil and firing pin spring change. Back into the action and have shot several thousand more rounds with out so much as a hiccup. You just never know when a spring can fail.
There is no way to predict how many rds you'll be able to get thru your springfield..../ or when a part may fail making it inoperable...but I agree keeping it clean and properly lubed..and changing recoil spring, firing pin spring and mainspring ( per mfg's recommendations ) is a good plan....but even mfg's disagree on how often to do that....and springs are cheap/ so I keep an inventory of springs for all my 1911's.
Personally, I follow the recommendations of Wilson Combat...because I trust their recommendations....so I change recoil springs at about every 3,000 rds, firing pin springs about every 5,000 rds and mainspring at about 30,000 rds. These days, Wilson is offering some upgraded springs - depending on your preference, that may change the round count on replacement...
My primary carry gun - and my primary range gun are one gun ( Wilson, all stainless, Protector model, 5" gun, in 9mm )....gun I bought new about 10 yrs ago and it currently has about 150,000 rds thru it. I put 7 boxes thru it this week, and most weeks, in a combination of tactical shooting drills and casual competition with my buddies. It's a solid & well built gun ...that ran 100% right out of the box. It has failed twice...broke an extractor at around 75,000 Rds - and the side plunger tube pins fractured at about 130,000 rds...in both cases Wilson insisted I return gun to factory for repairs, at their cost....and in each case, it was repaired & returned to me within 10 working days - and that included shipping both ways ...
My backup gun, if the 9mm protector fails....is an identical Wilson CQB model, that was my carry gun for about 15 yrs, 5" gun in .45acp ( no failures but only about 50,000 Rds thru that gun in about 18 yrs ) / but about a year ago I started carrying the 9mm, i'my getting older, some arthritis and i'm a few tenths of a second faster with the 9mm over the .45acp..../ ...so I have a backup 1911, if my 9mm fails.....but I see no reason not to practice with and carry one primary gun.
I have many other guns ( sigs and s&w revolvers primarily - in a variety of calibers ) and a few other 1911's in 9mm and .45acp....but I stick with the Wilson's as my primary guns regardless of the round count...and i'm confident my maintenance program on them - replacing springs, keeping them clean and lubed...including stripping them to a bare frame for cleaning and inspection about every 5,000 Rds --- or every time i replace a firing pin spring ...helps ensure that as well.
But all guns might fail...despite your best efforts on maintenance...and there is no way to predict when....in my view.
Personally, I follow the recommendations of Wilson Combat...because I trust their recommendations....so I change recoil springs at about every 3,000 rds, firing pin springs about every 5,000 rds and mainspring at about 30,000 rds. These days, Wilson is offering some upgraded springs - depending on your preference, that may change the round count on replacement...
My primary carry gun - and my primary range gun are one gun ( Wilson, all stainless, Protector model, 5" gun, in 9mm )....gun I bought new about 10 yrs ago and it currently has about 150,000 rds thru it. I put 7 boxes thru it this week, and most weeks, in a combination of tactical shooting drills and casual competition with my buddies. It's a solid & well built gun ...that ran 100% right out of the box. It has failed twice...broke an extractor at around 75,000 Rds - and the side plunger tube pins fractured at about 130,000 rds...in both cases Wilson insisted I return gun to factory for repairs, at their cost....and in each case, it was repaired & returned to me within 10 working days - and that included shipping both ways ...
My backup gun, if the 9mm protector fails....is an identical Wilson CQB model, that was my carry gun for about 15 yrs, 5" gun in .45acp ( no failures but only about 50,000 Rds thru that gun in about 18 yrs ) / but about a year ago I started carrying the 9mm, i'my getting older, some arthritis and i'm a few tenths of a second faster with the 9mm over the .45acp..../ ...so I have a backup 1911, if my 9mm fails.....but I see no reason not to practice with and carry one primary gun.
I have many other guns ( sigs and s&w revolvers primarily - in a variety of calibers ) and a few other 1911's in 9mm and .45acp....but I stick with the Wilson's as my primary guns regardless of the round count...and i'm confident my maintenance program on them - replacing springs, keeping them clean and lubed...including stripping them to a bare frame for cleaning and inspection about every 5,000 Rds --- or every time i replace a firing pin spring ...helps ensure that as well.
But all guns might fail...despite your best efforts on maintenance...and there is no way to predict when....in my view.
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For me, something can break on any gun at any time. Having spare guns is a must for me. My 1911 guns seem to need more maintenance compared to my Glocks. I mainly carry either a Glock or a 1911, occasionally, both
Things which have broken on my various 1911 guns have been:
-night sight vials
-thumb safety
-extractor
-slide stop
-barrel bushing
-frame (cracking)
-magazine
Generally, a specific handgun might go 50K+ rounds as BigJimP's guns have gone. I've not shot any of my specific guns to that round count, which means I've had failures at lower round counts. As I type this, I'm awaiting both a Glock, ~6K rounds, with a frame replacement and a Colt 1911, ~9K rounds, with a frame replacement.
Do what you can to maintain your EDC but have a spare or two. Even one small part breaking will need you to order, perhaps fit, and install that part. Whether you do it yourself or get a gunsmith/armorer to do it will take some time getting it done.
Things which have broken on my various 1911 guns have been:
-night sight vials
-thumb safety
-extractor
-slide stop
-barrel bushing
-frame (cracking)
-magazine
Generally, a specific handgun might go 50K+ rounds as BigJimP's guns have gone. I've not shot any of my specific guns to that round count, which means I've had failures at lower round counts. As I type this, I'm awaiting both a Glock, ~6K rounds, with a frame replacement and a Colt 1911, ~9K rounds, with a frame replacement.
Do what you can to maintain your EDC but have a spare or two. Even one small part breaking will need you to order, perhaps fit, and install that part. Whether you do it yourself or get a gunsmith/armorer to do it will take some time getting it done.
I agree with and follow TunnelRat's line of thinking here. I have multiples of anything I carry, and dedicate one of each to practice.
The carry guns get shot on a regular basis too.
Regardless, if you shoot a lot and carry little, or carry a lot, and shoot little, the guns need to be regularly maintained. And, as strange as it sounds, in the case of carry guns, even if they arent shot (I know people who dont shoot at all, and have never shot the gun they carry).
I clean my guns after every outing. It reduces wear and problems and keeps the guns running properly. I routinely change out the RSA's on the guns I shoot a lot. Even with the high round count guns I have, I really havent had many part breakages. If I knew there we a lot of rounds through the gun and I was carrying it, I would have the "failure" prone parts replaced on a fairly regular basis. If the gun goes down in practice, its no big deal, and a learning experience. If it goes down in real life/real time, its not the learning experience I want to have.
The carry guns get shot on a regular basis too.
Regardless, if you shoot a lot and carry little, or carry a lot, and shoot little, the guns need to be regularly maintained. And, as strange as it sounds, in the case of carry guns, even if they arent shot (I know people who dont shoot at all, and have never shot the gun they carry).
I clean my guns after every outing. It reduces wear and problems and keeps the guns running properly. I routinely change out the RSA's on the guns I shoot a lot. Even with the high round count guns I have, I really havent had many part breakages. If I knew there we a lot of rounds through the gun and I was carrying it, I would have the "failure" prone parts replaced on a fairly regular basis. If the gun goes down in practice, its no big deal, and a learning experience. If it goes down in real life/real time, its not the learning experience I want to have.
Gunslick: said:
IMHO, a 1911 is more maintenance intensive than a lot of the service pistols that people seem to carry these days. You don't mention how high the round count is on your Springfield 1911a1, that would be good to know. When you state "...Every 2 shoots I strip my 1911 and check all parts...", my question, is that a detail or a maintenance strip? If that were my gun I'd want to keep spare springs and a spare tuned extractor handy and I'd want to use good aftermarket magazines with it. I'd certainly put a Wilson Combat flat-wire recoil spring kit in that Springfield. There are reasons why I choose to not carry any of my own 1911's but there is no doubt that a 1911 is certainly "carryable".
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turtlehead
New member
Cool. I hope you're saving your brass. 
Do you reload?
Do you reload?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
What's your idea of "high round count"? A decent 1911 (which should include a Springfield Armory) should have no problem going to 100,000 rounds.Gunslick said:
It's been a little while since I went through the Colt Model O Pistol armorer class, but I continue to replace the recoil springs on my Colt XSE Gov and my SW1911SC (both 5" guns) every 2-3K rounds fired, or sooner if I use much +P. I bought both of them back in '05, I think, and have pretty much sidelined my other 1911's since then (another Gov, Commander & OM).
I do this after having listened to the Colt instructor pass along info from Colt, and after having discussed the matter with the fine people at Wolff Gunsprings.
I've also watched the wear & tear occur on more than a dozen Colt 1911's being used by a special enforcement team (broken slide stops & front sights, increasing failures-to-feed, etc) as the guns were used without apparently sufficiently frequent recoil spring replacement (and fired with a major maker brand of LE +P ammunition).
I replace magazine springs on a slightly different schedule, sometimes after every other recoil spring change, or as the spring in any particular magazine begins to exhibit signs of developing weakness. It can also depend on which make/model of magazine and magazine spring I may be using, as some seem to last longer than others (with the same usage).
As a long time 1911 owner and enthusiast, and having a passing familiarity with being a LE 1911 armorer (and having armorer manuals from both Colt and S&W), I enjoy using the 1911, but feel that they do seem to require a little more knowledge and attention on the part of the owner/user/armorer in order to keep them running (compared to the ubiquitous plastic service-type pistols on the market nowadays).
My XSE & SW1911Sc both run fine for hundred of rounds when dirty, as long as they're still lubricated, using any of the major maker JHP's I've used (or had approved) for .45 duty ammunition. They run as well, under hard use, as my only plastic .45 (M&P 45 FS), my early production Ruger KP90DC and my couple of S&W 3rd gen .45's.
Considering that virtually everybody and his brother seem to be producing 1911's nowadays, it's important to consider the quality of the materials and the quality of production efforts used by any particular maker. You can still see an occasional QC issue slip out the door of even the "established" names in the business, and talking with other LE 1911 armorers seems to produce the same experiences.
I do this after having listened to the Colt instructor pass along info from Colt, and after having discussed the matter with the fine people at Wolff Gunsprings.
I've also watched the wear & tear occur on more than a dozen Colt 1911's being used by a special enforcement team (broken slide stops & front sights, increasing failures-to-feed, etc) as the guns were used without apparently sufficiently frequent recoil spring replacement (and fired with a major maker brand of LE +P ammunition).
I replace magazine springs on a slightly different schedule, sometimes after every other recoil spring change, or as the spring in any particular magazine begins to exhibit signs of developing weakness. It can also depend on which make/model of magazine and magazine spring I may be using, as some seem to last longer than others (with the same usage).
As a long time 1911 owner and enthusiast, and having a passing familiarity with being a LE 1911 armorer (and having armorer manuals from both Colt and S&W), I enjoy using the 1911, but feel that they do seem to require a little more knowledge and attention on the part of the owner/user/armorer in order to keep them running (compared to the ubiquitous plastic service-type pistols on the market nowadays).
My XSE & SW1911Sc both run fine for hundred of rounds when dirty, as long as they're still lubricated, using any of the major maker JHP's I've used (or had approved) for .45 duty ammunition. They run as well, under hard use, as my only plastic .45 (M&P 45 FS), my early production Ruger KP90DC and my couple of S&W 3rd gen .45's.
Considering that virtually everybody and his brother seem to be producing 1911's nowadays, it's important to consider the quality of the materials and the quality of production efforts used by any particular maker. You can still see an occasional QC issue slip out the door of even the "established" names in the business, and talking with other LE 1911 armorers seems to produce the same experiences.
Two sides of the same coin; if you shoot the gun a lot, constantly proving its accuracy and reliability, you can certainly trust it.
On the other hand, you will wear-out parts by shooting the gun a lot, so is a part, any part, more likely to break on a gun with 20,000 rounds than on a gun with 2000?
I think there's a sweet spot, between "proven" and "worn", and that's where I'd like my self-defense weapons to be.
There's also a danger to "preventive maintenance" if it's taken too far; you could replace a perfectly functional, but old part with a new, but defective part.
When you replace a part, even a spring or screw, the gun has to be "proven" again.
It's like the (superstitious) big-league hitter who keeps using a bat with which he gets a hit - lucky bat - and another, equally successful, who changes bats after every hit, as that bat "might have only one hit in it".
On the other hand, you will wear-out parts by shooting the gun a lot, so is a part, any part, more likely to break on a gun with 20,000 rounds than on a gun with 2000?
I think there's a sweet spot, between "proven" and "worn", and that's where I'd like my self-defense weapons to be.
There's also a danger to "preventive maintenance" if it's taken too far; you could replace a perfectly functional, but old part with a new, but defective part.
When you replace a part, even a spring or screw, the gun has to be "proven" again.
It's like the (superstitious) big-league hitter who keeps using a bat with which he gets a hit - lucky bat - and another, equally successful, who changes bats after every hit, as that bat "might have only one hit in it".
I detail strip my Springer 1911 every 1000 rounds and check for wear and replace firing pin and recoil spring every 3000 or so.
Yes about 500-1000 rounds per week per rifle and pistol.
My other 1911 is an RIA. It sucks as far as quality of slide and frame and fit and finish but it has ran like a top for 10,000 rounds.
I only install parts usually when they are worn OR if I am replacing cast parts with machined parts. I ended up installing the stock sear, disco, and hammer back into the springer and am going to use them until they are worn then re-install the C&S Duty trigger I installed previously. I know it works and have ran 1000 or so rounds with the C&S trigger so I can drop it back in once I see how many rounds these stock MIM Springer parts can handle, I am kind of curious.
I am very thurough since I shoot a lot of ammo with my cleaning and maintainance.
Yes about 500-1000 rounds per week per rifle and pistol.
My other 1911 is an RIA. It sucks as far as quality of slide and frame and fit and finish but it has ran like a top for 10,000 rounds.
I only install parts usually when they are worn OR if I am replacing cast parts with machined parts. I ended up installing the stock sear, disco, and hammer back into the springer and am going to use them until they are worn then re-install the C&S Duty trigger I installed previously. I know it works and have ran 1000 or so rounds with the C&S trigger so I can drop it back in once I see how many rounds these stock MIM Springer parts can handle, I am kind of curious.
I am very thurough since I shoot a lot of ammo with my cleaning and maintainance.
I think it was in my last Glock armorer recert class where the instructor mentioned a number of times that "fresh springs help keep guns alive" ... and he's admittedly a longtime 1911 shooter (although he's worked for Glock for several years).
The comment about MIM parts reminds me of the older comments and concerns about cast v. forged gun parts in years past.
It's all about the quality of the materials used, and with MIM it's also about the quality of the molds, which is why S&W has reportedly always spent the extra money needed to own their MIM molds.
Good MIM (materials QC & molds) makes for good parts. That's probably why some of the gun companies have either shopped among some of the MIM "houses" (makers), or invested the money to have their own molds made for their parts/guns.
As an owner/user of various guns, and as an armorer, I've seen more problems related to "lesser quality" cast & forged steel parts than I've seen problems with good quality MIM.
The comment about MIM parts reminds me of the older comments and concerns about cast v. forged gun parts in years past.
It's all about the quality of the materials used, and with MIM it's also about the quality of the molds, which is why S&W has reportedly always spent the extra money needed to own their MIM molds.
Good MIM (materials QC & molds) makes for good parts. That's probably why some of the gun companies have either shopped among some of the MIM "houses" (makers), or invested the money to have their own molds made for their parts/guns.
As an owner/user of various guns, and as an armorer, I've seen more problems related to "lesser quality" cast & forged steel parts than I've seen problems with good quality MIM.
That is good to know. It appears to me that Springfield has done a pretty good job with their MIM. My sear just has finish wear obviously from the hammer falling but thats about it. It seems pretty strong-the sear that is- where the hammer hooks make contact there is practically no wear. I don't think there is a WHOLE lot of stress on the sear disco and hammer...I love the 1911. Gonna get another one Monday or next Friday I think. I was thinking either a Springfield Loaded or TRP or a Kimber Custom II. Which is going to last longer round count wise would you say between Springfield's 1911's and Kimber's?
The difference between "MILSpec" & Wilson Combat/high end 1911's is HUGE...
but due to MILSpec's loose tolerances which allow for excellent feeding,
eat-anything attitude, and No Headaches At All, RIA does it better than many.
Whereas, once you start tightening tolerances to WC levels...
they get increasingly ammo-finicky,
more prone to lock-up due to dirt/dust/etc...
and you have to increase maintenance to deal with all those issues.
Basically it's the same AR vs AK argument in pistol form...
which do you prefer?? Laser precision accuracy or flawless feeding??
Either will still kill the bleep out of a bad guy...
So they both win
Preference is a well-cared-for pistol that I know the habits of...
because when you know exactly where a given pistol
is going to shoot with a particular ammo,
that's reliability you can bet your life on
Besides, if you slap a WC Bushing on a cheaper 1911,
they tighten right on up to some very nice groupings
