Using the term "JACKBOOTED THUGS"

Status
Not open for further replies.

Covert Mission

New member
Indiscriminately using the term JACKBOOTED THUGS to describe our LEO's (federal or otherwise) reminds me of our soldiers who came home from VietNam and were spat upon and called "Babykillers". I think it does a great disservice to both. I don't think that people like Tom Delay, in national office, serve either their office or the nation well in spouting off with that term, trying to whip up partisan debate before all the facts are in. If you have a problem, it's with the people who give the orders, or our national/foreign policy. Any thoughts?

I'll issue a caveat: I think the tragedy at Waco (Ruby Ridge, too) was just that... a fubar operation that should never have happened, and about which we may never know the truth. I am also disturbed at the encroachments of the federal gov't in TOO many aspects of our lives, and the burgeoning power it is acquiring.

IMHO
 
Personally I like the term because it points out the similarity between our governmental arm of enforcement and Adolph Hitler's.
If the boot fits wear it. Otherwise feel free to use the term.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed




[This message has been edited by Ed Brunner (edited April 25, 2000).]
 
If the Boot Fits....

Last time I checked it was only in under tyrants (dictators and communists governments) that broke down doors and took people away in the middle of the night not to be seen again.

You mentioned Ruby Ridge and Waco.. Have you also heard this "once is an accident, Twice is Happenstance, a third time is due to enemy action"
 
Wow. I can't wait to read other replies. To compare in general our LEO's with the regime that murdered 6 million Jews, gypsies, etc. is really taking it a bit far, imo. I just can't or won't go there.

We still have the greatest constitution in the world, and although there will be misinterpretations, disagreements, and violations of it, we also have systems to correct those errors. There are surely some immediate corrections needed: RICO/asset forfeiture has gotten way out of control, non-violent offenders clogging the justice system are way too high (we have more people incarcerated in America than ANY country in the free world). Democrats and Republicans are both guilty.

I just think that to demonize LEO's for doing their job (part of which is not to interpret the legality of the law or their orders at a policy level), rather than indicting the actions of the policymakers, is wrong. Just like we don't like being labeled "gun nuts"---being categorized like we were more Buford Furrow's just waiting to go on a shooting spree. My 2 cents.



[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited April 25, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>that broke down doors and took people away in the middle of the night not to be seen again.[/quote]

What? The kid has vanished? I'll bet his father is raising hell. I just checked CNN, and they aren't mentioning anything about the kid having disappeared. Must be a new developement.

LawDog
 
Other than the Still photos "produced" by greg craig has any one seen the boy who isn't part of the "inner circle" who has surrounded the father since he arrived in this country?

Unfortunately as the Police in Kansas City have found out (several times) Following orders does not guarantee that the Police department will not throw an officer to the wolves if it becomes expedient.

The old “I just followed orders” excuse has not worked since the Nuremberg trials.

This might be an interesting question for a LEO type. You are told to perform a task that you believe is against the law, what is the proper response. I know the Military stance on this.




[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited April 25, 2000).]
 
They are TURTLEs

Tactical
Urban
Responce
Team
Law
Enforcement

There are 3 main species:

1) Common Green TURTLEs
which we just saw in action in Miami

2) Black Ninja TURTLEs

3) The TURTLEs that support the destruction of the constitution are called JBTs

Jack
Booted
Turtles

dZ
 
I try not to comment too much when it comes to the boys in blue. I'm glad they are there. I count many of them among my friends.

But these are the boys in black and, as a free citizen of the United States, I have a HUGE problem with them AND their leaders AND the policy makers. Just as it was no excuse for Hitlers thugs to hide behind the "just following orders" excuse, neither can these teams. We all have jobs but as soon as mine requires me to violate the law or my principles, it's over and I'll find another one!

The training of civilian police by military trainers in military tactics should be outlawed! The use of dynamic entry against citizens of this country should be outlawed! Deadly force should only be authorized to protect against the immediate threat or use of deadly force by those being lawfully served with a warrant - not as a mechanism for "protecting our officers just in case" or because "we had a tip they were stockpiling weapons". If an officer finds his job a little too dangerous, perhaps he has chosen the wrong field.

How many citizens have been killed by dynamic entry teams and tactics in the past 8 years? How many in the 80 years before that?? Why do these teams storm a private dwelling without hesitation but balk at entering a school under seige.

God help us - we live in a police state. A radical reversal is long over due. What ever happened to "protect and serve"?

Mikey
 
Mikey:

re: "...the training of civilian police by military trainers in military tactics should be outlawed! The use of dynamic entry against citizens of this country should be outlawed! Deadly force should only be authorized to protect against the immediate threat or use of deadly force by those being lawfully served with a warrant - not as a mechanism for "protecting our officers just in case"..."

Just to clarify things somewhat (and I am by no means an authority, but have trained with LEO/SWAT cops): 1) Many police SWAT teams have actually trained military units in urban ops, rather than the reverse. SWAT teams like LAPD's and LA Sheriff's, who are among the finest in the world, have refined urban entry and assault for a long time before the military finally recognized its value, and the military started sending SEAL's etc to crosstrain. 2) one huge problem is when you have smaller agencies who want to be like the big boys, so you have every Mayberry PD wanting its own SWAT team (often equipped with $$ and dollars from the Feds). Bad idea. There has been much written about this escalation of force. Now these agencies have their SWAT team, and they want to deploy them. So calls that were once handled by patrol officers now get SWAT instead. You know the old saying "If the only tool you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail".

Imo, SWAT teams have real value, especially in warrant service or hostage situations. Being able to immediately take control of a situation with overwhelming presence keeps things from escalating. The situations they are deployed in require the utmost discretion ind good judgement, though, and I don't think that happens enough, imo. Thats when TSHTF.

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited April 25, 2000).]
 
The BATF, especialy it's field agents who excecute dynamic entries and raids, deserve to be called every four letter word their is.

However, many TFLers are assuming that since their local SWAT team members resemble ATF tac units, that they are the same type of elitist, callous thugs. This is not the case.
Who here would do a crack house bust with just their unoffensive patrol kit?
 
Covert Mission

Not only does every PD in the Country want a SWAT team but every Federal Agency wants one too. I saw an article in 98 that stated in 1990 only 5 federal agencies had swat teams (mostly FBI, BATF, Secret service). In 1998 11 agencies had SWAT teams and more were considering them. Among the new teams was a team fielded by the park service, for what. I would think anything in a federal park requiring that much law enforcement would fall to the FBI.

Once any government agency gets a new asset they want to use them to justify the cost.

I don’t question the need for a few Swat type teams but with associated cost of these teams and the propensity to use them in marginal situations to justify their costs I question the need for so many swat teams.
 
Alan:

I agree with you totally, but maybe I didn't make that clear. In LA County, some smaller agences have decided to rely on help from the Sheriff's Dept for infrequent SWAT calls,rather than have their own units, which would have far less experience and training.

The Park Service needs a SWAT team? In case the rabid squirrels run amok? Give me a break. Call the FBI or the biggest LEA nearby... I'm sure they're better trained, more experienced, and can get there quicker.
 
I was going to post a new thread with these questions, but ths looks like a good place to ask: I know Rep. Dingell originated the term 'Jack-Booted', and of course LaPierre is the only one cited with this term. Can anyone provide sources for the quotes from each? THANKS!
 
This is not fun for me. I dont make the comparison to be cute or humorous. I am essentially a law-abiding US citizen who has until recently respected our government. I also respect LEO's. I have no respect for a government that exceeds its authority or a politician who does not respect the Constitution. I have no respect for a government agency that has its own police force or a President who uses it as his own secret police.
If you cant see the truth in this comparison, look again!

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Hey guys, here's one no one has mentioned. Guess who's paying for the fathers little vacation? And who foot the bill for Janet's raiders? We are. As Nancy used to say "just say no............
 
{Biting lower lip, chin quivering} I feel a profound sense of remorse for the hurt and pain that my words have inflicted upon the Jack Booted community. How could I have been so thoughtless of their *FEELINGS*?

Seriously, It was my understanding that the term "JBT" applied ONLY to those agents and officers that behaved as JBT's...

LEO's: If the term doesn't apply to you than don't sweat it(and thank you for your service)... If it doesn't apply to you but you're concerned about the "feelings" of those who would trample our L,L, and POH then you might be considered a JBT sympathizer. IMO JBT sympathizers should go in the same pot as full-blown, card carrying JBT's.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top