USA national ID proposed

Faithless

New member
McCain, 9/11 panel want national ID debate
By Shaun Waterman
UPI Homeland and National Security Editor

Published 8/16/2004 7:20 PM

WASHINGTON, Aug. 16 (UPI) -- The vice chairman of the Sept. 11 Commission told a Senate panel Monday that the commission's recommendations on border and transportation security "might lead to" a national identity card.

Although the commission shied away from directly making the controversial call in its final report, "We did recommend national standards for drivers' licenses," Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton told the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee.

"Over time," he told committee Chairman Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., "that might lead to a national ID card."

"Isn't that a fundamental issue that we're going to have to address as a nation?" McCain asked Commission Chairman Tom Kean.

Kean replied that the commission had judged biometric screening -- using techniques like fingerprinting or retinal scanning -- to be "a little less intrusive," but acknowledged "A national ID card would be another way to do it."

The American Civil Liberties Union said in a statement Tuesday that federal standards for drivers' licenses constituted a "backdoor attempt to create a national ID-card system and a serious threat to privacy, liberty and safety."

They said the idea "would provide a new tool for racial, religious or ethnic profiling and would lead to far more illegal discrimination."

The American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, which represents state DMVs, welcomed the proposal. "We concur with the commission's recommendation that the security of both the issuance process for the state-issued driver's license and the document itself need to be strengthened," said the group's president, Linda Lewis.

But the emergence of the license as what the association calls the "identification document of choice throughout North America" has brought with it problems.

A number of state governments have faced controversy since Sept. 11, 2001, about the so-called legal-presence requirement, a law that requires applicants for a license to prove their U.S. citizenship or their right to reside in the United States.

Advocates say such rules are essential to maintain the integrity of the de facto national ID document, but immigrants' rights advocates counter that trying to exclude undocumented migrants turns "motor vehicles bureaus into immigration agents -- without additional funds or adequate training," in the words of the ACLU.

Motor vehicle administrators also have reservations about the legal presence requirement. "Our initials are D-M-V, not I-N-S," said American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators spokesman Jason King -- referring to the acronym of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which was absorbed into the new Department of Homeland Security last year.

"We are the experts in driver licensing, not immigration."

Tuesday, Hamilton said he thought McCain's call for a debate on the issue of a national ID was right on the mark.

"The American public is becoming more and more agreeable to intrusiveness in order to protect themselves against terrorist attacks," he said, adding that the idea was nonetheless still controversial.

But in its final report last month, the commission, formally known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, proposed changes to the nation's identity regime more radical than federal standards for drivers' licenses.

The report recommended a seamless biometric border so that everyone entering or leaving the country, whatever their nationality, would have their identity biometrically confirmed.

Currently, under the U.S.-VISIT program only one category of travelers -- those foreigners holding visas -- is subjected to such a check, and then only at airports.

The Department for Homeland Security, which runs U.S.-VISIT, plans to extend the system to cover foreigners from the 27 visa-waiver nations who arrive without visas and to roll it out gradually at border crossings beginning later this year.

But even when U.S.-VISIT is complete at the end of 2005, U.S. citizens will still be able to enter the country without a biometric identity check. The State Department recently announced that, by the end of that year, it will begin issuing U.S. passports with a single biometric identifier -- a digitized photograph that can be checked with facial-recognition software.

At Monday's hearing, Sen. George Allen, R-Va., questioned the choice of facial recognition as the biometric, saying it had a failure rate as high as 50 percent.

State Department officials point out that the digital photograph is the international standard for passport biometrics, agreed by the International Civil Aviation Organization.

But advocates of biometric security for travel documents say that this was simply the path of least resistance -- people are used to submitting their photographs already.

"The harmonization with other countries is important," acknowledged Allen. "But is it so important to disregard the fingerprint-technology option, which I believe is superior to the State Department's current plan?"

A State Department official pointed out that collecting photographs from passport applicants and digitizing them was easy, compared with having to install equipment to do fingerprint scans at the 6,000-plus facilities -- including post offices and court houses -- that currently accept passport applications.

"First time applicants, or those whose passports expired more than five years ago, have to apply in person," the official said. "Installing fingerprint stations at all those locations would be a serious logistical burden."

Privacy advocates also point out that, since the passports and the data encoded on them will be machine readable, using fingerprints as a biometric would effectively be requiring U.S. citizens to hand a permanent digital record of their prints to the government of any foreign country they visited.

The commission further advocated that the biometric border be fully integrated with an internal system of checkpoints, controlling access to the nation's critical infrastructure and transport system, as well as federal buildings.

"That could be a recipe for a system of internal controls that would treat people traveling within the United States in the same way it treats those crossing its borders," cautioned Greg Nojeim, associate director of the ACLU's Washington office.


http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040816-061940-3291r
 
"The American public is becoming more and more agreeable to intrusiveness in order to protect themselves against terrorist attacks,"
Speak for yourself, White Man.

"You there. Step into that room and change into this red jumpsuit. Place your passport into the clear plastic pocket, photo out. Then go stand in that line over there. Move now; be quick about it."

"Yes sir. I feel safer already."

:rolleyes:
Rich
 
Dear Congress, Courts and Executives,

Stop advocating the passing of laws which violate the Constitution. It is obvious that you are unjustly limiting our rights and freedoms and in doing so are assisting the terrorist's in the accomplishment of their goals. Isn't it enough to live in fear of them while you squander resources, swat at shadows and criminalize the populace? Don't make us start living in fear of you as well. Even if you could guarentee total safety for all citizens, it would not be worth the cost in lost rights and liberties that you would have us pay.

Please deal with threats that are real, i.e. true border security, intense scrutiny of all aliens in this country (legal and illegal), immediate incarceration and deportation of those people whose visas are expired, revoked or who are breaking the law, surveillience and suppression of all individuals and groups who advocate violence against the US or it's citizens, insist that foriegn governments actively assist the US in curbing the flow of undesirables to this country, etc.

The people of the US are NOT the enemy and are NOT a threat to national security. Please stop treating us
as if we were.
 
The protests are too little, too late. I'm not afraid of a national id card, because state DLs are essentially that already. Nor am I afraid of compelled identification because we have that too, thanks to Hiibel and the Supreme Court.

I didn't sign up for this handbasket ride to Oceana, and there doesn't seem to be an emergency exit. I don't know what to do about it.
 
Kean replied that the commission had judged biometric screening -- using techniques like fingerprinting or retinal scanning -- to be "a little less intrusive," but acknowledged "A national ID card would be another way to do it."

Retinal screening is "alittle less intrusive"?
 
A Modest Proposal

The safety nazis think a national ID will allow us to sleep safely in our beds at night.

WE think a loaded gun, close at hand, will achieve much the same objective.

They want a national ID; WE want national recognition of our firearms licenses. As:

1. The firearms licenses are issued after criminal investigations;

2. Carry photos (well, the 3 states I have now use photos); and

3. Use existing technology from existing agencies trained and equipped to
issue such licenses (unlike a mere driver's license);

Then using a firearms license as accepted ID should be a simple matter of enacting a national "right to carry" law.

NOTE: I use my license - when I'm NOT carrying - quite often for that purpose; especially checking in at airports. It works quite well. :cool:
 
Swazee.jpg

"I'm soooooo happy da gubbermint is keeping me safe!"


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams
 
I had to give my SSN to get it.
I had to have a digital picture taken to get it.
I had to have a digital thumbprint taken to get it.

I have a national ID. They call it a Texas Driver License. :mad:
 
We already have a national ID. Just try getting a job, opening a bank account or filing your income tax without a SSN.
 
Obnoxious and unwarranted as the use of SS numbers is,

that hardly constitutes a national ID. Does your SS# have your photo, fingerprint, DOB, race, and gender on it?

Thought not. It's misuse and abuse IS a problem, however.

Many of the problems with SS# abuse are the direct result of lazy, unconscious people ALLOWING the abuse. Those who let insurance companies, schools, the Red Cross, doctors, dentists, etc. use the SS# as an identifier because they were too inept or inert to generate their own codes made this abuse possible. I refuse to give my SS# unless I have to; I've refused it to the Red Cross, forced my health care provider to issue a new ID with a non-SS# identifier, and forced my grad school to issue me a different number for my student ID (made it REAL easy to find my test scores when they were posted).

My state used to require the SS# and used it as the license number. Years ago, the law was changed to make an alternate number available. Few people were intelligent or motivated enough to do so.

After a series of horror stories about stalkers who used the SS#, obtained from the driver's license, to track down victims, the law was changed again. The SS# would NOT be used UNLESS you were stupid enough to ask them to. You guessed it; cretins by the tens of thousands ASKED to have their SS# advertised to all and sundry (my state used to SELL driver's license lists). "Oh, it's such a bother remembering a new number!" What's to remember; it's printed right on the license - READ it.

These people make identity theft simple, have made the SS# a de facto requirement, and trained the mindless masses to accept a national ID long before it was formally imposed. "Ah, brave new world that has such people in it.." :barf:
 
Does your SS# have your photo, fingerprint, DOB, race, and gender on it?
Nope. But it links me to my CCW, DL, FFL, Military record, Form 4s, place of employment and numerous other databases that do have my photo, fingerprints, DNA, dental records, DOB, place of birth, height, weight, gender and medical history.
 
Unfortunate, but....

"it links me to my CCW, DL, FFL, Military record, Form 4s, place of
employment and numerous other databases that do have my photo,
fingerprints, DNA, dental records, DOB, place of birth, height, weight,
gender and medical history.

LINKS are not the purpose of a national ID; the immediate provision of certain key data is. As SS# cards do not even have a physical description, still less a photo, and are usually the second document falsely obtained by those seeking an illegal identity (a birth certificate generally being the first), the SS card won't work.

Yet.

The use of Blackberries to access to LocatePlus.com by the police in Boston during the DNC suggests that soon - VERY soon - the SS# WILL be a key to your entire life, accessible to anyone with internet service. :eek:
 
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