US GI HELMET PROTECTS OUR BOYS FROM ?

J

Jamie Young

New member
Ok this is an old post but I wanted to ask a few new questions.
Anyone know if Kevlar actually reduces Infrared signatures or thermal signatures? Wasn't sure if it was true. Is there anything you can wear to prevent getting picked up by Thermal Imaging?

(Old Question if anyone wants to ad to it?)
What was the design of our Kevlar helmets suppose to defeat. I've heard so many rumors and stories. I've heard the 7.62X39 round and the .308. Actually one guy said "It Stops the 7.62" Which I thought was too broad of an answer. I know there are different grade helmets for Law Enforcement. I Assume the modern day helmets were designed to defend against the Former Soviet Militaries arsenal of AK's on a battle field? But whats the story behind our US helmets?

P.S. This was one of the first posts I put on TFL and I was completely amazed at "Schmit's" answer to my question. I never expected to hear someone say they took a helmet and flak jacket out and shot it LOL !!

[Edited by SodaPop on 05-17-2001 at 11:18 PM]
 
One - they are way ahead of the old steel pots in terms of comfort and head/neck protection.

Two - they are very resistant to shell fragments and Natick has some that were recovered from Panama that stopped 7.62 x 39 bullets. Not sure if the bullets were riccochets or full velocity hits.

I would not want to wear a helmet that could stop a 7.62 Nato hit. You'd have to have a neck like a gorilla to support the durn thing.

Giz
 
I "just" happened to have a current issue helmet & Flack jacket "laying around" so I decided to put it to the test a few years back (hey... I had to wear the darn things and wanted to know what they would stop)

IIRC on the calibers/projectial types and performance was as follows...

Helmet*

Stopped 9mm Ball & .45, HP (Hyda-Shok, Gold Dot, Black Tallon), .454 Casull FP (I think I fired one of those into it)

Didn't Stop .223 Ball, .308 Fed Match

* Handgun round fired from 7 yds, Rifle rounds fired from 100 yds.

Flakjacket

Stopped 9mm & 45 HPs, .30-30 Round nose, 12 gage Slug & 00 Buck (all fired from 15 yards)

Didn't Stop 9mm Ball, .223, .308.

Needless to say even with the rounds they did stop I wouldn't want to have been wearing them. The helmet took some large "dents" that would have probably KO whomever was wearing it.

The Jacket was resting resting on a railroad tie for the test and the 12 gauge slug put a .5" "dent" into the wood. If that would have been a chest I'm sure ribs would have been broken if not even some internal "blunt" trauma injuries.

Really both are not designed to stop projectials from firearms and are only ment to stop shrapnal from all the stuff blowing up around ya.






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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
They're only designed to stop frag and secondary missiles, not direct hits. That's why they call them "flak jackets" and not "bullet proof vests."

While 9mm and other pistol cartridges may not have fully penetrated the helmet, take a look at the inside. Think about what the deformation would have done to your mellon.

These things were probably developed in the late 1970's and they were looking for reasonable protection at a reasonable weight. I'm sure they could do much better today, but the military has a hard enough time getting money to keep their gear maintained properly, much less replacing items they already have.
 
How much more power does the .223 have over a 7.62x39 at 100yds. Were you taking shots right at the top or shooting a the sides of the helmet. I'm curious about angles ?
 
The majority of head wounds are from shell fragments. The new helmets are designed to stop such. Any further protection is icing, but not necessarily intentional. Getting caught up in the sematics of angles, velocity, bullet design, etc., is fine for academia but not for reality.

In reality I wore MY helmet knowing it would stop more than my BDU cap would. It was nice that it was lightweight, comfortable (in relative terms) and allowed me to hunch my flack jacket up into it to sleep against the sandbags.
 
I was under the impression that the Kevlar helmets were a major technological break threw as far as helmet designs. What you all tell me is completely different than what everyone else told me. A guy that tried to sell me a helmet at a gun show a few weeks ago said it stops 7.62 and I didn't believe him. When some one tell me 7.62 I usually assume 7.62Nato. I asked him if he meant 7.62x39 which I could believe But he just said "All I know is its stops a 7.62 bullet".
I'm surprised the flak jacket actually stopped pistol rounds but I'm really surprise the helmet couldn't stop a .223 at 100yds. Its good to hear "Schmit" took my question to the test. Now I don't have to go out and buy a Jacket and Helmet and shoot them to find out.

Anyone Else have any first hand experience?

[This message has been edited by SodaPop (edited July 23, 2000).]
 
I dont think theyre very comfy at all. The suspension is the same as the steel pot which means all the circulation gets pressed out of a few spots on my scalp. yuck
 
Is the newer lighter weight KM2 version that the military is supposed to start issuing better at ballistic protection? I would have to guess that it is improved to stop direct fire than just a 20% weight reduction. Seems the new Interceptor stops 9mm and limited rifle rounds w/ optional plates.

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"Started out with nothing, still got most of it."
 
Schmit, for testing a vest I believe the proper procedure is to put the vest on a dummy with clay over it, so the vest can deform back with the impact rather than getting pinned against a hard surface. An old trick from the police vest manufacturers is to set up two vests, one from the competition against a telephone pole and one of their own against a soft backstop. The competitor's vest usually failed. So your results might be a bit conservative. Of course, there's a bit difference in penetration between standard 9x19 ball and the hot +P+ stuff often used in subguns.

As for 12 gauge slugs, the scuttlebutt I've heard is that a chest hit is frequently fatal anyways. If you think about what kind of hammer blow it would take to put a 1/2" dent in a railroad tie, then imagine that blow against your rib cage, the outlook ain't good.
 
A "green tip" std issue 223 "penerator" is designed to penerate a US Kevlar helmet at 500 yards, the 308 will far beyond that. Can't answer for the 7.62x39 or others.

So obviously, the Kevlar helemt is just like the old steel pot, it is designed to protect from shrapnel & indirect hits. k
 
I personally witnessed shrapnell from a M-57 Fragmentary grenade penetrate a flack vest. Shrapnell ended up lodged in chest cavity between diaphram and lung. Explosion was air burst at about 10-15 feet. Individual did not die from injuries. If he hadn't had it on...he most surely would have though.

WinMag
 
WinMAg-
What type of Flak was it the Vietnam style, the PASGT or the Interceptor. I remember reading a post Vietnam study showing when troops wore body armor causalities were reduced by 40 percent.
 
> the proper procedure

I'm sure it is... and something along those lines were discussed. however, being the Jarhead I am, I wanted to test it in the worst possible way.

And I agree that taking a hit from a 12 gauge would sure screw up you day (or your time on this earth).

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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
 
STLRN,

In Vietnam soldiers wore many different vests. The most common was the M-69 nylon frag vest. However, some troops wore Korean war leftover M-1952 and M-1955 vest. Furthermore some wore vest called variable body armor consisting of nylon frag protection and front and back ceramic plates to stop up to .30 cal AP. Aircrews wore armor called the "Chicken Plate" vest. These vest consisted of of 2 hugh pieces of ceramic plates offering protection for crew chiefs/gunners. Pilots had variants offering only front protection since seat was usually armored. PASGT was developed after Vietnam and was issued during the early 80's. It is now currentyly being replaced by the Interceptor body armor system. Hope this helps. :)

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"Started out with nothing, still got most of it."
 
See Bass:
Thanks for the info, what I was looking for what type of vest. The reason I asked was the "M57" lemon grenade. The current base ball frag is a M67 so I assumed it either a older prePASGT body armor or just a typo and the the frag from a M67 penertrated a PASGT vest at the velcro flaps. The English currently are making a grenade designed to go through body armor. It produces large "sharp" frag specifically designed to penetrate kevlar, spectra, etc.
 
Has anyone notice that A lot of the European countries are wearing Kevlar helmets? I saw a clip on the news the other night on the Chinese Military and I swear they have the exact same design helmets for there Military. They might not have been Kevlar but they looked like our Helmets. I know we originally took the design from the German Military because of the Ear and Neck protection. How the Hell am I going to tell who's who when I get my Ass Drafted?

[This message has been edited by SodaPop (edited July 25, 2000).]
 
A lot of other countries do produce their own version of our PASGT helmet. As far as composition and protective capablities...don't know. Kind of analogous to copy cat 1911 style pistols and AK variants. Everybody makes them but just a little different.

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"Started out with nothing, still got most of it."
 
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