US firearms deaths compared to other countries?

K

Kimio

New member
This was brought up in a conversation, we were talking about how America compares to others like those in Europe and how America appears to have the highest fatality rate when it comes to firearms.

I've read and seen several statistical analysis between the UK and Australia, and have also heard the argument that we can't compare our crime rates that involve firearms to those countries due to the way they track their crimes.

So the question is, how do we stack up to other "civilized" nations when it comes to homicide involving firearms when previous comparisons are apparently now not a valid argument.

I'm not entirely sure where to begin on a topic like this. China is one I can think of but they've banned firearms all together and the frequent argument I get back when bringing China into the mix is that the criminals there using knives, axes, cleavers etc. came up with less fatalities than the mass shootings with a firearm. (Which doesn't make it any less horrific IMO)

Thoughts? Suggestions?
 
So the question is, how do we stack up to other "civilized" nations when it comes to homicide involving firearms when previous comparisons are apparently now not a valid argument.
Click to expand...

All countries are civilized. What elitist BS were these people coming up with that was treating some other countries as somehow "lesser" because they are not in a the US or Europe? That is pure garbage.

That said countries were firearms ownership has nearly always been banned (instead of just recently) has resulted in abysmal records of freedom in those countries. There is a direct correlation between the level of firearm freedom and the level of individual freedom. Crime is also astronomically high in countries where firearms are not allowed or have always been forbidden. Crime rises as soon as firearms are banned and continues to rise (in nearly every case).

Look at this chart:

violent_crime_europe.jpg


ETA: The people you are discussing this with say the numbers are now "invalid" because it is a losing argument for them. Strange because for years the argument was those numbers, until they went against them.
 
Last edited:
Probably could have worded that better, perhaps as developed?

Anyway, like you, I stated that I don't believe that we have the highest fatality rate with firearms, sure perhaps when we are compared to countries that have heavy gun control laws or out right bans we beat them out, but they have equally if not higher violent crime rates that utilize other weapons.
 
The thing is, to an anti-gun person anyhow, it is somehow worse to be shot to death than to be beaten to death......

They all holler about "gun homicides", as if the above were true..... dead is dead, and I'll not be beaten to death, unless I have more attackers than i have bullets to give them.
 
According to the Wikipedia list we are in tenth place for all gun deaths and a bit lower for guns employed homicides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

BUT

The wiki list is missing some small countries like:

Russia
Several of the Stans
Syria
Libya
Iraq
Iran
Egypt

or

Anywhere that a lot of people die from gun deaths where guns are already banned that would make the list look badly skewed where countries that ban guns have a real high rate of gun deaths.

Also according to the UN many countries under report violence and crime to the point where there is no really telling for sure. So essentially the wiki list is a pack of lies and half truths.

I will point out that there is just as much validity in comparing the US to Russia, if such numbers were available to any other European Country.
 
Appreciate the input there AS, kind of a shame that it's hard to find reliable information at times.

But I agree, history has shown that places that forbid its citizenry to arm and defend themselves tend to have higher crime and usually are easier to oppress that those that allow the populace to arm themselves.
 
As you move away from a society where civilians have guns to one where the state has the guns you will see some conflicting reporting.

For instance although civilian caused firearm related deaths may be down, those caused by the state go up. Obviously deaths caused by the executive branch arent considered murders or crimes so they won't be listed in the crime statistics.
 
That study [pdf] was done by Italian researchers.
Click to expand...

Of sure Italy, a country full of fascists.

See, I just discredited their argument by calling them Nazis. People who have rabid beliefs always discount or discredit anything that stands in the way of those beliefs. It is the only way they know peace.
 
I didn't see Mexico on that list.
Click to expand...

Number six overall and the murder rate is 4.5X the US rate. The data is badly skewed because there is no suicide rate and therefore there are likely thousands of more gun deaths annually. But that can all be explained by the thugs and criminal organizations selling guns in the US to criminal gangs.

Now how you explain the fact that the criminal organizations in the US that have them don't just use them to kill people in the US is a head scratcher. :confused:

It does not seem to make any sense that they would have to send the guns to Mexico and then kill people with them. It is a very inefficient process to say the least.
 
I've noticed how some anti-gun folks will talk about gun homicides then switch to gun deaths with the implication being that it's the same thing. Our overall suicide rate isn't out of line with other industrialized countries but a higher percentage of our suicides use guns. I think some folks deliberately confuse homicides, gun homicides and gun deaths in an attempt to portray places with less restrictive laws in a bad light.
 
Also according to the UN many countries under report violence and crime to the point where there is no really telling for sure. So essentially the wiki list is a pack of lies and half truths.
Click to expand...

So true. Who believes crime rates being reported by countries like Russia, anyway?

Utah's murder rate is close to the UK's. SLC is no London, but it's a real, major city.

Then there's Vermont, which doesn't have as much in the way of urbanization, but it has even more liberal concealed carry policy than Utah. It has a lower murder rate than the U.K.

An interesting counterpoint to those two low-population states is New Mexico. It has a murder rate of 8.7 per 100k (vs 1.1-1.3 for the previously mentioned countries/states, based on the wikipedia intentional homicide list)

What's different about New Mexico compared to Vermont and Utah?

It's all about sociology: gangs, drug distribution, economics, and poor criminal justice policy driving crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#United_States
 
Last edited:
I hope we never get too civilized. Savages took care to protect their families. The so called civilized people can't seem to even keep mama and papa together long enough to raise a family.
--Grandpa told me," Our people didn't ride horses and take scalps, we lopped off heads and ate the ponies."
 
Looking into gun death rates only plays into the grabbers hands. It would be like comparing automobile deaths between the US and some primitive remote Amazon tribe. The fact that the US has more guns means there will be more deaths with guns than other grabbing countries. What's far more useful (and the way you should direct the conversation with a grabber) is comparing violent crime rates between the countries. England and Wales has almost 4 times the violent crime that the US has.
 
The fact that the US has more guns means there will be more deaths with guns than other grabbing countries.
Click to expand...

This statement is completely false. The countries where guns are banned and seriously restricted have the highest death rates from guns of any in the world. Why do we keep giving ground on this?
 
This statement is completely false. The countries where guns are banned and seriously restricted have the highest death rates from guns of any in the world.
Click to expand...

That statement is completely false. The gun deaths per 100.000 is a lot higher in the USA compared with the UK.
 
That statement is completely false. The gun deaths per 100.000 is a lot higher in the USA compared with the UK.
Click to expand...

So what? There are 193 other countries in the world besides the UK and the US. Many of them have much higher rates of "gun deaths".

This whole concept of comparing everything we do to the UK, Australia or Canada really needs to stop.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top