Updating the Enfield?

M

MatthewVanitas

New member
Greetings all,
I still haven't given up on the Tanker Garand idea, but wanted to bring up a similar issue.
I know the "are bolt actions obsolete for modern combat?" issue has been beaten to death on this board, rec.guns, etc., so I will avoid that issue entirely.
That issue being safely avoided, what would you do to an Enfield to turn it into a modern combat rifle? Or, if the idea is still repellent to you, we can put it on the highly theoretical level, and imagine what a British Limey of WWI/WWII, etc. would have had done to his rifle, had he had access to modern gunsmiths. Deal?

Personally, the following come to mind:

1) Lighter weight and shortened barrel. Maybe carbon-fiber could achieve lightening without sacrificing accuracy?
2) A good coating of Roguard, MolyResin
or similar semi-impervious modern finish.
3) Are modern aperture sights better than the Enfields had? Maybe a dialable National Match sight, with some dim tritium?
4) Hollowed laminate stock, or synthetic with some strategic weights for recoil reduction.
5) A flash-hiding/muzzlebreaking compensator.

I suppose, roughly, I'm imagining a Enfield carbine with durable finish and M16A2 compensator, bayolug, and rear sight. I think the M16A2 has great accuracy (if not reliability, but that's been beat to death as well), so I imagine an Enfield carbine wouldn't sacrifice too much for the shortened sight radius. If recruits with two weeks or rifle training using beat to hell semi-auto .223 rifles can hit the man sized target easily from the prone position using iron sights and a web sling, from the 500 yard line, I imagine the same can be done with the Enfield, with practice.

So, if anyone has any additions to this list, etc., please let me know. I'm toying with the notion of turning my current Enfield sporter into something like this, and would appreciate more ideas from those who prefer the old-school rifle.

Take care all,
-LCpl Matthew Boris

My respects, on the eve of Our Birthday, to all Marines, serving, those who served, and those who died for us. Ooh-rah!
 
Like your idea, but a lot of it (shorter barrel, lighter weight) were tried without much success in the jungle carbine. The main problems with it were high recoil and muzzel blast. The recoil issue could be cured by a decent recoil pad, The little hard rubber thing on the real jungle carbine only made things worse. No lightening cuts on the reciever, that apparently is what caused the wondering zero problem it was famous for. Muzzel blast would probobly be tolerable with a decent flash suppresor and modern powders instead of cordite. As for sights personally I prefer the Enfield Mk4's to anything available including the 16's. Some protective ears on the side might be nice though. Sounds like a neat project, keep us updated.

Regards, Blue Duck357
 
Check out the Gibbs "Quest Rifle" rework of a MKIV.
I have 2 of them. "Very pleased"
Recoil is next to nothing with the well thought out cuts in barrel and the use of the flash hider front sight.Shortned barrel lightened stock.
Pick one up...you won't be disapointed.
WOLF
 
I like the idea of an Enfield Jungle Carbine in the scout configuration (sans bipod). However, I'd have one of those Pachmayr Decelerator pads mounted. I'm under the impression that the wandering zero was attributed to the flash guard (just line the cone style M2 found on the M1D Garand). It should be secured better to produce consistent harmonics. Of course, it should also have synthetic furniture.
 
Having purchased an original 1945-dated No5Mk1 a couple months ago, and working with MkVII ball and comparable handloads, I honestly believe that wandering zero is much less a function of the rifle and more that of the shooter. In other words, these little guys KICK! Think about it, just a shade over 6 pounds for the carbine, pushing a 174gr bullet over 2500fps, with a flash hider that unfortunately functions the same as the recoil boosters on the Vickers, Maxim, and MG-34. I defy anybody not to develop at least some sort of flinch after running about 20 full-power rounds through a No5Mk1. I've got just about 200 rounds through mine now, and have learned the value of wearing a shooting jacket, and not anticipating the shot. It has rewarded me with groups no worse than those fired from my longer and heavier N4Mk1, as well as my No1MkIII.
junglesmallgrainy.jpg
 
Now for something compleatly different:

Rechamber an Enfield to .45 ACP, chop the barrel down, and add a suppresor so that the total overall barrel length is 16 inches. Replace the magazine with a machined part that acts as a mag well for 1911 magazines. Replace the wooden stock with a synthetic stock. Modify the length of travel for the bolt for the shorter .45 case, also giving you a very short bolt throw. The Enfield cocks on closing so thats no problem. Add a scope mount and a red dot sight.

Wa La, a modern day De-Lisle. It would have to be class III due to the suppresor but wouldn't that be cool! :D

George Stringer was thinking about trying one of these over in the Smithy a while back if I remember correctly.

Thats the modern Enfield that I would want. The only sound you would hear would be the hammer falling.
 
I recall in the early days of TFL there was someone (possibly overseas in Australia) producing & advertising home made Delisle type carbines.
 
Hey, this is getting pretty informative actually.

The Gibb's Quest carbine is very slick indeed, but I'd prefer a black finish, and also 308 (better extraction on rimless, more common caliber, etc.) But I like the combo brake/flashsupressor. I'm surprised you don't see those more often. They may be problematic on "assault rifles", but on a normal bolt action, why would you not want to diminish both recoil and blast? I believe the "Vortex" is this sort of dual compensator.
The .45 suppressed Enfield, also a must (smile). But, even better would be in .338 Whisper. Check out www.sskindustries.com for these. Basically, imagine a 7mm BR cartridge with a full .338 slug jammed into. The exposed slug is as long as the cartridge in some loadings. The weight gives it high momentum, but subsonic speeds. According to Cartridges of the World "accurate to 600 yards with Sierra Matchkings". Sure, suppressed 45 is cool, but a .338 rifle just as silent...

With Enfield receivers going as low as $25 these days, I'm wondering if I can create my own little Gibbs-type carbine in 308 with Vortex compensator, black moly finish. Maybe can pull it off around $350 even.
Synthetic stocks seem pretty common for the Enfield, any good reccommendations for a practical all purpose rifle? I once saw a wooden skeletonized Dragunov stock on an Enfield, now that was novel!

Gotta love those Enfields...

-MKB
 
Great minds think alike! I turned an old, sporterized #5 Mk1 into a scout rifle and couldn't be happier.

I found a #5 that had been polished and blued, had the front sight/flash hider butchered, a shot out barrel and a synthetic Ram Line stock. I couldn't resist!

I replaced the barrel with a surplus 2 groove barrel from Springfield Sporters ($20) and had it chopped to 19". I had Ashley Outdoors install one of their Scout Mounts and refit the forend. They also installed a new front sight. I installed a Galco 3 point Ching Sling, a Galco 5 round butt cuff and a Leupold Scout Scope installed with Warne QD rings. It had been missing a rear sight so I got a replacement ghost ring/ adjustable aperature from Springfield Sporters and put it where it belonged.

The rifle is a gem. It will regularly shoot sub moa with Greek surplus ammo. I don't think any of my handloads have gone over 2 moa with most of them hovering around 1". It still needs a trigger job but that will have to wait until after deer season! I had also thought about a flash suppressor but the rifle shoots so good now I don't think I'm going to mess with it.

Run with your idea and let us know how it turns out. If you find a source for thumbhole stocks PLEASE email me. I can't find one anywhere and I would very much like one. I'm in contact with someone who might be making them in the future but that's up in the air at this point.

Email me anyway if you would like to discuss this further. I have some experience in this area.

PS. I just reread your original post. I haven't found anything better than the Enfield's rear sight. It is a superior setup. The Ram Line stock is hollow and it sports a Pachmayer Decelerator recoil pad. Recoil is not an issue.

[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited November 10, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited November 10, 2000).]
 
Wow - this sounds like a great idea !

A couple of posts back someone mentioned the inexpendsive replacement stocks.

Where can you find one of the synthetic replacement stocks for an Enfield ?

I'd really like to find one with a pistol grip like Choate makes for the SKS. I haven't seen one at their site though.

Any ideas ?


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Keep the 10 rings ragged!
 
Doesn't Gibbs already make a Jungle Carbine in .308? I'm looking at an October issue of Gun List and at an ad for Gibbs with a #5 (.303) and #7 (.308) pictured. I'm seriusly concidering the #7 for the .308 option/12 rd capacity, 8#.

Has anyone bought or tried this rifle?

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- Ron V.
 
Ahh, yea Whispers rock. I was thinking more of a familiar caliber that I already use a lot, but the Whisper would be really neat.
 
Hey Scoob
I believe Ram-Line makes replacement stocks for Enfields, fair to dirt cheap priced, but I cannot comment on quality or lack thereof, I haven't seen them up close...
FYI, they sell for about 82$ CDN, so it must be close to 1.99$ US in the 50 States... :D
 
hey hk...got your gibbs enfield, a pair of them....not too bad, overall....have some issues with them, even posted a thread in the smithy for some advice....overall, lots of bang, very little buck ($$$ and recoil)...kind of happy with them...will be happier once i iron out of few bugs....

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speak now, or forever hold your peace
 
twist, read your problems in the Smithy, your post is helpful. There are a couple of distributors here in Ohio that carry the line. My plan is to go to one or both and find one (or maybe two) that isn't too bad off.

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- Ron V.
 
Oh, one other thing twist, is that magazine for the #7 detachable? Did you buy additional ones? If so, how much are they? (If you did get that model.)

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- Ron V.
 
Scoob--consider the Advanced Technologies' 'zytel' stock for Lee-Enfield. I have them on three L-Es, one of which I use quite a lot. I actually like the shape, dimensions, and general handiness better than, say, my M70. I am informed that the Ram-Lines are second rate. I do know that the AT stocks are excellent.

My only real mods to the #4 Mk1 so far are to replace the stock as above and cut the barrel back to the front sight band. The rimmed case is a bother and practical reloading means neck sizing brass for any case life, but out in my open country this rifle would outperform an AR-15. Of course, the M1 Garand is king.

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Well, the synthetic stock would probably be a good thing, along with the lighter barrel, better trigger...
But for sure, I'd go with rechambering to .308, instead of that #@%%!! rimmed cartridge. The .303 is a fine round, but it's easy to cross the rims, and that's a hassle if other people are shooting at you.
Or, instead of .308, how about 5.56 NATO? With the lighter, smaller round, the barrel could be lightened, the action shortened even further, increased mag. cap, etc., etc. Seems to me that this could solve a lot of problems.
The other major thing I'd fix is the magazine system - have to go with lightweight, detachable mags and an easy-to-use mag release. Stripper clips are better than nothing, but not that much better (especially with rimmed cartridges!)
 
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