*Update* Denied purchasing first firearm, no convictions ever

G

Gobo3241

Inactive
I posted a few months ago about being denied my first firearm purchase although i've never been arrested. After immediately appealing I got a generic letter saying i'm a state prohibited person.

4 months later a new letter has arrived saying that NICS believes me to be "A person who, being an alien is illegally or unlawfully in the United States". Problem with that is that I became a US citizen when I was 16. I have a valid US passport (which i've traveled internationally on many times) and my dad just sent me a scanned copy of my certificate of citizenship.

Does anyone know what I do with this info? I'm outside of Seattle in unincorporated King County. I heard on NPR that the county runs the backround check in Washington State so I called their non-emergency number and the woman who responded acted like I was a lunatic for calling them about that.

Any advice? Does anyone know who I need to talk to at the State/County level? Is it the county where the gun store is that runs the check? The county where my registered address at the DMV is? Please hold off on the lawyer up comments :) I don't have the 2-3K to do that and this is a blatant (and honestly pretty insulting) error. I feel like I was denied just because I have a foreign looking name.

Thanks and can't wait for the responses.
 
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Start with the ATF?

Might want to start with the field division of the ATF.

Here's the link to the Seattle division: https://www.atf.gov/seattle-field-division

If nothing else, they may be able to point you in a better direction as they would know how the NICS checks are done in your state. Where I am, Illinois, we go through a state check called FTIPS which polls the federal database. not every state does this.

If nothing else, its a start.

Good Luck!
 
Thanks! I just called them and it put me through to Washington D.C. office. The representative said the Seattle office closes at 4:30 so i'll try them tomorrow morning. Unfortunately she said she can't answer any gun related questions.


Also - I'm thinking about writing my Senator. I know both WA senators are staunchly pro gun control, but I'm going to frame it as an injustice to a naturalized immigrant and throw in a couple of lines about how i'm scared of Trump's potential purges of illegal immigrants / worried that the FBI has incorrectly classified me as one. Good idea or bad idea?
 
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Perhaps ask the field office tomorrow if they can point you in the direction to talk about an issue with a NICS verification issue? If nothing else, the field office should know how the process unfolds for your area when you complete a 4473 and be able to explain it to you. From there at least you have an idea of who to contact next. I imagine it might be the state police.

Check this link and look under the link for Restoration of Firearm rights:
http://www.wsp.wa.gov/crime/chupdates.htm#firearm

Here's an excerpt: "Please note the Washington State Patrol Identification and Criminal History Section does not determine your right to purchase or possess a firearm. For information on firearm purchase checks, please contact the FBI’s NICS Department toll free at (877) 324-6427."

Good Luck!
 
Will do. Unfortunately every time i've tried to call the NICS line it puts me through to a recording that says "Due to high call traffic we cannot take your call at this time". Has happened at all times of the day so I pretty much consider that a dead end.

thanks anyway though.
 
I have heard (for what that's worth) that due to unanticipated volume, and staffing changes made by the previous administration, that the appeals process now has up to a YEAR backlog.

All I can say is don't give up.

Also, you might want to find out if there are any OTHER government lists that they have incorrectly placed you on. (such as the "no-fly" list??)

Seriously, being listed as an illegal alien, when you are verifiably NOT, is a major problem and one you need to take care of, no matter how long it takes to work through the system.

I would focus on that, and not push the gun rights part, because #1) the anti gunner politicos might help, if they don't think you're doing it just to get a gun, and #2) once you get your legal status correctly listed, firearms approval should follow automatically.

Get your correct citizenship status "locked in" first, then try to get a gun, and if there is still an issue, work it, until its fixed, no matter how long it takes or how irritating it is.

Good Luck!
 
Hi Gobo,

WA state is a "point of contact" state, which means the background check is run through the local LE agency for handgun transfers when the buyer does not have his concealed pistol license.

The LE agency is determined by your residence address. In your case it is probably King County Sheriff's office.They run your data through local and state records, DHS and NICS. The fact that you got a letter from NICS is a good indication you need to work through them, not the county. The county is just the point of contact, they did not deny you.

If you want to "DIY" your appeal you can start here: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/national-instant-criminal-background-check-system-nics-appeals This site will walk you through the process and help you understand what to expect.

If you want to get this done quickly, you should get a lawyer. I had two customers this year get denied. Both got a lawyer and cleared things up in about 4 months. No telling how long it would have taken without legal help.

44 AMP is right, funds and staffing are down for NICS appeals. Also, your citizenship status is the most important factor in this.

Finally, you were not denied due to a foreign sounding name. Even a non-citizen with permanent legal residence, and the right paperwork, can legally buy a firearm according to federal law.
 
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I would focus on that, and not push the gun rights part, because #1) the anti gunner politicos might help, if they don't think you're doing it just to get a gun, and #2) once you get your legal status correctly listed, firearms approval should follow automatically.
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While this may sound sort of off the wall have you considered contacting the local ACLU office? I know they are currently focusing on immigrant rights issues. Also, regardless of whether they support the 2A I'm sure they would agree you should not be denied the rights that all citizens are entitled to.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I made a couple of phone calls today:

ATF: Seattle Field Office - They said they don't do anything with background checks but gave me the number for the Department of licensing and firerarms who manages the "point of contact" list.

Dept of Licencing and Firearms - They confirmed that the point of contact for background checks was the King County Sheriff as I live in that county. Looks like the person I spoke to yesterday was poorly trained or didn't care. I will try the Sheriffs office again but they told me that I likely need to do this through the FBI.

FBI: Seattle Field Office - The person was very nice and suggested I contact NICS. When I told him it always auto cuts you off he said he would transfer me to the "backround check division". This ended up being a recording saying theyre having facility issues but to email them at identity@ic.fbi.gov or leave a message. I did both explaining the situation.

Looking through my documents I also realized that my passport expired last year. Here is my plan of attack:

1. Apply for a passport renewal. I'm a little concerned on this one as you have to surrender your old passport. I don't want to lose this proof of citizenship. $110 fee. 8 weeks.

2. Apply for a CPL. I think they do a more in depth background than just for a purchase of a firearm which is what I want in this case. $50 fee, ~3 weeks

3. Write letters to both Senators primarily focusing on this as an immigration issue. Honestly, I am a bit worried that the police will just show up to my house and arrest me. Being classified by the FBI as an illegal alien who was just denied a gun purchase puts me on the short list I would think.

4. Continue to try to follow up with King County

5. Go back to a gun store and try to buy another firearm. Not sure if this is a good idea but if the system is so messed up that they made such a ridiculous error I wouldn't be surprised if it just glitched out. I might just pass go with another attempt.

6. Last resort? Contact local news. NPR is also discussing NICS denials daily (in the vein that dangerous people are attempting to purchase firearms and the police aren't following up.) I'm a pretty private person though so don't really want to put myself out there like that.

7. Contact an attorney for a consultation. This situation seems so cut and dry I might be able to do it on the (relatively) cheap.


To top this whole thing off my wife just reminded me that my close friend's wedding is coming up in May and we were likely going to be attending. It's in Poland. I'm honestly scared to leave the country even if my passport renewal goes through... thats pretty sad.

Thoughts? Advice? Ideas?
 
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This doesn't fix your entire problem and I don't know about WA; however, in my state, simply presenting your concealed carry permit substitutes for a NICS check. If your attempt to get a CPL is successful, then maybe you wouldn't have to worry about NICS.
 
Following Niner4Tango's link ought to be #1. Your number 7 should probably be bumped up to the number 4 position....
 
in my state, simply presenting your concealed carry permit substitutes for a NICS check
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That doesn't work in Washington state. A background check is still required. The difference is that if you have a permit, there is no waiting period to buy a handgun.

I think there is an expedited passport process.
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That is true. It costs a bit extra. They might "expedite" even faster if you have a foreign trip planned soon.
 
I see this as far more than just a gun denial issue: You earned your US citizenship yet someone in the government is treating you like an illegal alien? That's a direct violation of your civil rights as an American. I agree that you should get a Senator or Representative involved and appoach this as an immigrant who has become a naturalized US citizen but is still being denied his rights because the government is not recognizing his citizenship.
 
Jim Watson said:
Item 5 is illegal, you may not attempt to buy a gun to see if you can pass the check when you think you cannot.
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No, not necessarily. It's only illegal if he's a prohibited person and he's lying on the 4473. But he says he's not, so in that case it wouldn't be illegal.
 
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