Unlawfully hungry.

BerettaCougar

New member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050815/ap_on_re_us/atlanta_panhandling

"ATLANTA - About two hundred people crowded into a City Council meeting Monday on a proposed panhandling ban after homeless people and dozens of their advocates spent the night on the steps of City Hall to show their opposition.

Lisa Borders, the City Council president, had to shush the crowd to start several hours of public comment on a resolution that would make it illegal to beg for money near downtown hotels or tourist sites.

Among the first to speak was Elisabeth Omilami, who spent the night outside. She pleaded tearfully for the council not to pass the ban.

"The ability to ask for alms is a God-given ability. You can pass laws to protect trees, but what about human beings? God help us!" Omilami said.

Although there was some supporters of the ban, most of them were from the same groups of homeless, activists for the homeless and civil rights organizations who appeared at previous meetings to oppose the measure.

A vote on the proposal was delayed last month after a contentious meeting that included shouting matches and hissing from critics. The Council was to debate the issue later Monday, but it was unclear when they would vote on it.

William Fox, 57, who is homeless, said before the session began that he never panhandled but "forcing people not to panhandle is taking away their rights. It's not American."

Downtown business owners say aggressive beggars are keeping people away from the central business district. Last month, Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus, who is bankrolling the $200 million Georgia Aquarium being built downtown, threw his support behind the ban, saying the success of the attraction depends on its passing.

The billionaire philanthropist said he has donated $600,000 through his foundation to the Gateway Center, a 300-bed facility for the city's homeless.

Bobby James, who described himself as once homeless, said the ban would be a good idea.

"A lot of times, tourists give money to people, and they go to the liquor store. They buy a crack rock. You just enable them," James said.

But homeless advocates are instead pushing for affordable housing and a living wage for the city's homeless population, saying the ban would criminalize a person's right to ask for charity when they cannot take care of themselves."
 
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Now I hardly ever give money to homeless people, but if I have some left over food in my car, I give it to the first homeless person I see.

I dont have the power to know why they are homeless, maybe they were screwed over by an evil wife, the government or maybe made a few wrong choices in their life. Either way they are hungry and thirsty. And need food, it isnt our problem? you're right it isnt... not your fault their poor so you dont HAVE to help. But if you can help...why not? if you have enough food to feed two, and it's only you...why throw it away?

I wont give a homeless guy money because chances are they will use it on drugs. So I give them food when I can, And yes they do smell bad, they do sometimes get annoying. but telling them you dont have the money should be enough. not banning the entire part of asking for money!

They arent robbing you...this legislation will turn the homeless to rob people... desperate people resort to extremes for results.
 
but telling them you dont have the money should be enough

It should be, but they still follow you around anyways.

I don't have a problem asking for money. I do have a problem withthem following me around demanding money.
 
The problem is that there are some professional panhandlers out there who get way too aggressive. One of the Columbus, Ohio media outlets did some reporting that indicated that a fair percentage of those asking for money were in fact not homeless or otherwise disadvantaged but were making a living out of panhandling.

No thanks, I'll donate to legit charities like shelters or food kitchens....
 
I think you have to ask yourself what you would do if you found yourself destitute. Would your first inclination be to get any job you could, or would you make a cardboard sign and begin a life of standing around smelling bad?

A few years ago I found myself working as an engineer for a small manufacturing company where most of the employees made very little money. I went back and forth to work via the same route every day, and every day I saw the same guy standing at a left-turn lane with a cardboard sign "HOMELESS PLEASE HELP GOD BLESS". Since I was bored and had plenty of time, I did a little mental arithmetic and figured out that, given the "red-light" length of that signal, if one car in every ten signal cycles gave the guy a buck, he would have made more money than the people who came in and worked hard every day.

Tim
 
The panhandlers I have known (ant that has been a lot) fall into three categories.

1) Severely mentally ill persons who were discharged from involuntary treatment at mental hospitals and who refuse voluntary treatment. Most of them also have refused housing placements and eat regularly at local soup kitchens. This is about 1/3.

2) Drug addicts and other ne'er-do-wells who like the $200-500 per day that a good panhandler can bring in. This is about 2/3.

3) A small number of others, which I can count on the fingers of one hand after 30 years of observation.


Just on the surface I think that all of Number 3 could be taken care of if you allowed street vendors and street performers.
 
After my father retired he reverted to a second childhood.
One of his dreams growing up in the 40's was to be a hobo.
It was kind of a comical although very stressful time for his kids though.

Anyway he fell in with a large group of well known local modern day hobos.

To a man they were nothing but leeches and general wastes of oxygen capable of spewing a sob story worthy of an oscar.

It took dad about 3 months to outgrow his little fantasy and about a year and half and three moves to get shed of these scumbags

Other's experiences may differ but mine tell me that these people overwhelmingly are where they are because they deserve to be where they are.

His next childhood dream was hitchhiking to California.
That's the one that turned my hair completely gray and had me checking into the Baker Act
 
"2) Drug addicts and other ne'er-do-wells who like the $200-500 per day that a good panhandler can bring in. This is about 2/3."


im neither a drug addict nor a ne'er-do-well, but $200-500 a day? looks like im in the wrong business!

seriously though, i have to dispute those numbers, very hard to believe. where are these bums working, beverly hills?
 
next time someone says hes hungry and asks for money try this.

tell him/her that you will not give them money, but you will buy them lunch at whatever fast food place is lurking around the corner. see how many will turn down your offer, many will. that lunch isnt going to provide any booze/drug money.

i have done that 5 times. 1 took me up on the lunch offer and he seemed very happy to get it, i dont mind helping someone who really needs it.
 
Come on guys... does the government REALLY have the power to outlaw asking for $?

Keep in mind it's asking... if they dont leave you alone after a warning then it becomes harassment, if they follow it is stalking, if they touch you it's assualt...them standing there asking for some $ for food is not illegal... Well atleast it shouldnt be.
 
Government does not have the right to say what you can and cant ask for.

For what ever reason the person is homeless...doesnt matter. If the homeless person is suppressed enough they will turn violent, resort to the laws of nature and thats to survive... if it means robbing, killing...whatever..

Am I the only one that thinks this is a problem?

Imagine this... enough homeless people turn violent, to convince the government that the homeless should be exterminated. genocide of the helpless... then extermination of the homeless would turn to extermination of the weak and the ones that cannot survive on their own. the retarded, any group of people that is a "hassle" will become a problem to society...

It's scary!

Or am I just getting too deep into this?
 
"Am I the only one that thinks this is a problem?"

You're the only one who thinks it's your problem.

Tim
 
They arent robbing you...this legislation will turn the homeless to rob people... desperate people resort to extremes for results.
I disagree. It will cause them to leave the area and find another one to panhandle in. Many tourist areas have bans on panhandling.
 
i want to spend an afternoon on a street corner with a sign that says "i have a job. you dont need to give me money" and see how generous/stupid people really are.
 
The local PD set a speed trap using deputies disguised as urban outdoors men.
The one with the radar gun was holding a sign that said
"Speed Trap"
Will Ticket For Speeding"
Or words to that effect

They say it was one of their busiest ticket writing days
 
Some historical perspective:

1536
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/marshall.html

Old Poor laws
http://www.smr.herefordshire.gov.uk/post-medieval/workhouses/workhouses_poorlaw.htm
http://www.dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/adw03/peel/poorlaw/plaa.htm

1662
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/poorlaws/1662act.html

Articles of Confederation (Article IV exceptions)
http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/artconf.html

A different approach, very comprehensive:
http://www.popcenter.org/Problems/problem-panhandling.htm


seriously though, i have to dispute those numbers, very hard to believe. where are these bums working, beverly hills?
Bible Belt. Busy intersections, with a parking lot nearby are the best according to my sources. The $500 number is for holiday seasons and the $200 for much of the rest of the year.

I don't see as much of it since I moved away from the big city but there is one guy in this town, a double amputee, who likes to hit up the Sunday crowds leaving church. He probably has a lot of $300 and $500 days. Trouble is that he has to pace himself, as in a small town he can't work too many days without people getting wise. That is why the best panhandlers have a route over several cities, so people won't recognize them.

Some time when you have some spare money, try going up to one and telling him you can give him five bucks but he'll have to make change for a hundred. ;)
 
There was a panhandler, with the obligatory "Homeless vet will work for food" sign, who frequented a busy intersection near where I used to work. When I left work particularly late on day, I saw him in a parking lot adjacent to the intersection... tossing his sign and jacket into the trunk of a nearly-new Lexus.
 
In Detroit one of the local TV crews set up their cameras to watch one of the squeege men on a busy corner. He worked that corner every day except weekends. They followed him home, and like gc70's "homeless vet", watched him tossing his window washing stuff in the trunk of a newer car. They followed him to one of the richer suburbs where he lived. He was knocking down a lot of money that he never reported to the IRS.
 
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