unknown old rifle

A

ALMIGHTY

Inactive
Sorry about my english!yes cartriges are centerfired!i have all the pieces of the gun but i didnt display it(i forgot):-)Thank you Mike Irwin you are right!i will display other parts of the gun tomorow!thank you! Can someone tell me where could i buy cardriges for these gun-becouse i dont have the right ones!
 

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Yes, a description of the rifle will help tremendously. Action type, caliber, barrel length, hammer type, magazine type and description, stock description, and any markings on the barrel and/or action. And a picture or two will help tremendously.
 
You need to supply some more info. Like the dimensions of the bullet any marks on the metal of the gun. The letters and symbols stamped in various places. Those are proof marks and manufacturers marks that can help ID the rifle.

Here is a link of proof marks by country. It is not complete but maybe you can ID one of the marks on the barrel.
 
First, apologies for my snide post - I thought it was funny at the time, but now it just seems mean.

Where do you live? Knowing where it is located might help.

I am politely bowing out now, as I can barely identify the rifles I own, let alone a mystery like this. Luckily there are very smart people here who can probably help.
 
Are you sure of the date 1864?
Are the cartridges rimfire or centerfire. Are there any markings on the cartridges? The first centerfire was 1873 iirc.
 
pics up of rifle

looks like centerfire.other than that,I have no idea what it is.
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I agree with Leif.

I THINK it's one of the Austrian Werndl conversion rifles.

AH! Bingo, here you go.

Spitting image of your gun's action:

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Austria/67Werndl.htm

The rifle was likely made in 1864, but not in the configuration seen there.

It was very likely originally a muzzle loader that was later arsenal converted with the rotating breech.

In the late 1860s through the 1870s that was a common way for nations to get in on the metallic cartridge on the cheap by converting old muzzle loaders.

In the United States there was the Morse conversion, followed by the Allin conversion (much of it was ripped off from Berdan's patents), which was later adopted in the new-production Trapdoor Springfield.

In Britain the Snider Enfield conversion was used, Austria used the Werndl, Russia used the Berdan, etc.
 
I wish we could see the side plate where the hammer would be.

Is that piece on the back of the breech of the OP rifle a cocking device?

It also looks like the nipple where the cap would go has a screw in it.

Maybe the hammer was eliminated and it now has a striaght through firing pin, I don't know I'm just speculating.

67Werndl09.jpg

You see the back of the Werndl looks different, than ALMIGHTY's rifle.
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"It also looks like the nipple where a cap would go has a screw in it."

Nate, I looked long and hard at that, too, but that is an optical illusion. Take a look at the other pictures in the thread and you'll see what I mean.

You're actually looking at the hammer cut out and firing pin channel in the back of the breechblock, but because of the angle of the photograph and the shape of the metal cutouts in the breech it looks like a nipple with a screw in it.

As far as I know, no Werndls were ever hammerless/striker fired. The rotating nature of the breechblock would make that difficult (but not impossible) to achieve.

The Werndl was made in several distinct variations over a span of about 10-15 years.

This particular rifle looks to me to be a Model 1873. These apparently were purpose built breechloaders, not conversions. Also, the action was modified somewhat after issues were found with earlier versions.


Ok...

What looks like a "cocking piece" on the rear of the action is, I would suspect, the axel for the breechblock. The smaller screw to the left, along with the plate that connects the two, is like part of a retaining/strengthening assembly to keep the axel.
 
As far as I know, no Werndls were ever hammerless/striker fired. The rotating nature of the breechblock would make that difficult (but not impossible) to achieve.
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Yes, it would and I couldn't find any Werndls that did not have a hammer. You are more than likely correct, the hammer is just missing and there is no other action that closely resembles the Werndl that I could find. I still wish we could see a pic of the side plate though.
 
Almighty,

As far as I know, Werndl cartridges haven't been loaded since the end of WW II.

In the United States they're scarce and relatively costly collectors items; I don't know how they would be priced in Europe.
 
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