Universal vs Unique

B

Brutus

New member
Ran out of Unique a couple years back and haven't been able to find any since.
Immediately started hoarding my supply of Universal clay shotgun powder as a substitute. My favorite load for .44 Mag. was 240gr. SWC on top of 8gr. of Unique which yielded 975fps. from my 6" model 629. Haven't had a chance to chronograph the same with 8gr.'s of universal ( hope to do so this week) but recoil sure feels more aggressive. Burn rate between the two is identical.
Actually very pleased with the results, Universal meters better, burns cleaner and accuracy is about the same. Last time out I reduced the load to 7grs. and that load was very accurate with felt recoil about the same as the old Unique load. Anybody else have this experience?
 
I have not used Unique in my 44 in 20 years. All I use now is Universal with 240 and 7.0 gr. I have gone up to 9.0 but always drop back down to 7. I think it is a great powder and for the reasons you stated.
 
I concur, don't think I'll be buying Unique again when it does become available unless Universal becomes scarce. I've got about three lbs which should last a long time provided I don't start using it for my shotguns again. Funny how one can actually reap a benefit from the powder shortage. I've also discovered Autocomp as a substitute for 231 results aren't a impressive and I managed to get 2lbs. of HP38 so it looks like I'm set for awhile, only thing I'd like to find is a can of 2400. Any idea what velocity that 7gr. load is generating?
 
Interesting thread here, as I just started another concerning a variation of +.1/-.1 grain variation in metering Unique for my .45 Colt. What are the metering issues alluded to in metering Unique?

Thanks in advance.

T.

Have to add, in my nearly 4 decades of reloading, I'm still on my first 1lb. can of Unique, never really using much of it, until I found that several of the other powders I used to use, were scarce, hence resorting to what was on hand (the Unique).
 
Unique, for me anyway, seems to do better in loads that don't have a lot of air space in the cartridge - .45 ACP, 9mm, etc. than it does out of revolver rounds. It still burns dirty, but not nearly as dirty as it does when there is a lot of available room in the case. It's good powder though - doesn't meter great, but doesn't meter all that bad either and is very consistent.
 
I prefer Universal over Unique ...for many different loads...and I agree it meters a lot better than Unique in most presses ( but Universal has not been available in retail stores for close to 3 yrs now....and none in sight, in my area )..../ Hodgdon keep insinuating, this summer....but summer is almost here.....( for Clays, for Universal and International )...but especially Clays and Universal...( for shotguns especially ).

The powder that is often available ....is Hodgdon TiteGroup...and it works real well in many handgun calibers including .44 mag...
 
I like them both. The other powder you load just like Unique is 20/28. So depending what is on the shelf (have three choices)..... Either Unique, Universal, or 20/28 are used interchangeably in my .44s and .45s. Any of the three is my goto power for .44Spec (7.5g under 240g SWC) and .44Mag (10g under 240g SWC) . I am partial to Green Dot in my .45 Colt revolvers. Haven't much trouble with metering either with any of the three powders.
 
BigJimP,
Bought two lbs. of Universal from Cabelas.com about two months ago, just recently I got two lbs. of HP-38 from them as well. Trick seems to be getting on their website first thing in the morning. In both cases they were sold out a half hour after my purchase. Hated to pay two separate Hazmat fees $60, but at least I got some powder.

TonyZ,
Back in the day I would trickle charge my Unique loads for the best accuracy and least extreme spread. Red Dot meters the same way. Found that using my larger orifice rifle barrel then supplied with the RCBS powder dispenser eliminated the need to trickle charge but still used up the +- .1 grain. Both are flake powders but Universal doesn't seem to exhibit that tendency.
 
Brutus said:
Burn rate between the two is identical.
Click to expand...

Universal and Unique are close in burn rate factor in QuickLOAD's database (2.38 and 2.35, respectively), but burn rates for two powders usually only match under standard test conditions. Run them at different pressures and they change. An example I've seen demonstrated is that IMR4064 is faster than IMR4895 at low rifle pressures, but slower than 4895 at high rifle pressures. About all published burn rates tell the shooter is that two powders are probably suitable for similar applications, but not that the charge weights will match.

In QuickLOAD's database, Unique has about 5% higher energy content per grain, but its progressivity factor is significantly lower than Universal's (about 6.0 and 10.6, respectively). As a result, it generally takes less Universal to achieve the same peak pressure. On the other hand, a load that achieves the same peak pressure with Unique will probably have a higher velocity. That's because the heavier charge weight makes more gas so acceleration when the bullet is a little further down the bore is greater.

After tweaking a couple of things to get a match, QuickLOAD shows 8 grains of Unique giving 975 fps with a peak pressure of about 16,300 psi, and producing about 8.12 ft-lbs of recoil in the 45 oz 6" 629. It shows the same amount of Universal producing 19,400 psi and 998 fps, and 8.45 ft-lbs of total recoil energy. If I reduce the Universal load to 7.3 grains, I get about the same peak pressure, with 16,400 psi, but velocity falls to 941 fps, and recoil drops to 7.45 ft-lbs. The velocity and recoil decreases are effects of having less total gas and total energy from the powder charge. If I reduce the Universal load slightly to 7.7 grains, I get 974 fps and 8.02 ft-lbs of recoil energy. But the pressure is higher, at 18,000 psi, which means the bullet's initial acceleration will be a little higher and sharper.

SBH's 7 grain load of Universal shows 15,230 psi and 915 fps, with a recoil of 7.02 ft-lbs in the 629.

Understand that those exact numbers will work out only if your lots of Unique and Universal and SBH's lot of Universal match the lots tested by QuickLOAD's author. Chances are the energy content and burn rates will vary a little. One thing you could do is start at 7.0 grains of Universal and work up until recoil feels the same to you as the Unique load does, then just measure the velocity.
 
Unclenick,
You are a low down snake in the grass, just shelled out $200 on a new chronograph and you come along dangling a new carrot, I don't have, in front of my face.
Seriously, I've considered buying a copy of Quick Load in the past but chocked on the price tag. What I find extremely interesting is how it pegged the velocity of my 8gr. Unique load.
When I chronographed it 10 shots went from 933 to 1006, which I attribute to poor metering, this results in a 969 avg. velocity. In addition to that it has provided you with all sorts of other interesting data that I didn't need but now can't live without. How long have you had it?
How accurate do you find the information generated? How often do you have to pay for upgrades or is tech data upgraded on a continues basis? Would you recommend this software? Feel free to take your time answering, even though I have my credit card out already.:D
 
Well UncleNick,
I didn't wait for your reply, instead I reviewed all the posts on the subject and boy, Quick Load appears to be a very powerful and useful tool.
Down loaded their demo version but, alas, calibers available in the demo version don't exist in my collection. Based on everything I read in the posts I've decided to go ahead an purchase a copy. I knew once the credit card was out I was doomed.
 
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Accuracy has some variability. When I put in Federal's original 168 grain SMK load over 43.5 grains of IMR 4064 in a 24" tube with a case that had Federal's capacity (I'll have to look at my notes on that) I remember it gave me 2648 fps, where Federal claimed 2650 fps. Other loads I've had be off by as much as 200 fps in some extreme instances. 50-100 fps faster seems fairly common.

What causes that is individual gun characteristics. You can adjust all that stuff, though. Also, knowing canister powders are held to ±3% burn rate, adjusting the burning rate factor is one thing I do. Also, a lot of the default case water capacities in the library are on the small side, for safety margin. You always want to measure what you actually have.

In your case it didn't actually peg your number. I had to fiddle burn rate, case capacity, and barrel length just slightly. But once you get a reference point like that fixed, then the relative behavior of other substituted components actually works out rather well.

What QuickLOAD does not do is try to know anything about where your throat is relative to the bullet, and it always assumes a very mild primer. You often have to fiddle these things.

You are going to find QuickLOAD a real education. I strongly recommend taking a standard load and just fiddling with every available argument to watch how they affect results. I strongly recommend reading the instrutions completely, or you'll miss some things.

You will also find the program comes with a couple of exterior ballistics programs that are very useful. The fancier one, QuickTARGET Unlimited, is one I've come to depend on a lot. It is unique in that you enter your gun details and sighting conditions (up to and including latitude and longitude for inclusion of Coriolis effect), then for the result calculation you enter the conditions and location and so on for where you are going to shoot, and all the adjustments compensate for that. It also has a long list of measured drag functions for real bullets so you don't have to depend on the usual not-quite-matching ballistic coefficient reference projectiles. Very useful, but complicated enough that you need to get used to it, too. Once you do, you'll wonder what you ever did without it. That's the way with QuickLOAD, too.
 
Really looking forward to receiving my copy, planning on a shooting extravaganza with family members this week so I've been at the loading bench for the last couple of days.
I've reloaded 9mm through .45 Colt with a variety of powders, next on the list will be .45/70, 30/06 and good old 30/30. Can't wait to compare my chorno results with Quick Load. Needless to say I've suddenly become quite popular with other family member enthusiasts. By the way, getting back on subject, what does Quick Load say about my 7.0gr of Universal Clays?
 
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